Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

I'm coming back to my Rs turbo roots ..not owned one since 1999 and 2002 ..had cossie and focus Rs etc ..so I'm looking to buy a nice rs turbo in either mercury grey or white ..and ill be wanting to have a nice reliable low lag engine built ..what will be needed to achieve 260bhp ..and nice and smooth to drive .what sort of price and what parts are needed for such a engine build and what best turbo etc.

studabear

Are you 100% set on a cvh?

Fraggle...

iTrader: (1)

Rods wallet, and it lined with prayer matts for carpet


Oh an welcome back mat

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Not really have to be cvh ..but would still like to stay 8v cvh head if possible ..I'm way out of touch with rs turbos when I've built cossies for a long time .

studabear

A st170 based zetec turbo will do your power requirements very easily with little lag.

Regardless of cvh or zetec or zvh you will need

Efi, suitable clutch, something along the lines of a stage 3 t3,

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Sound ok ..1800 bottom end ? Stage 3 T3 is that a .48 ? Sounds pretty straight forward ..tbh

studabear

Not sure with a 1800 bottom end tbh.

A cvh would need decent rods and arp bolts, newman cam and solid lifters, maybe head work but I'm sure others that have had higher powered cvh's could advise better.

A stage 3 t3 has a .48 exh housing. Afaik some people use a cossie 4x4 turbo

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

So what cc or bottom end then mate ? Yea i had 4x4 cosworth turbo on my white s2 in 2000 set up by msd ..It had a 2 bar boost spike that went well for the time etc ..It just want a nice nippy rs turbo

studabear

This is what I followed but its for a full zetec turbo, very little lag.

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...onversion.html

wildheart

iTrader: (4)

Might be worth having a word with NMS as they now convert the zetec block to take cvh parts as the cvh blocks are prone to cracking.
Beach on here is going down this route i believe.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Thanks lads ill be happy with 250 260 ..

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

I have a steel bottom ended cvh that should see 260bhp but if I had the choice to do it again I'd go zetec turbo .

Might just wait till the block cracks and then build a ZT

Welcome back anyway Mat , Mercury grey S2 look awesome

studabear

Can lack of use crack them.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Roscoe cheers mate ..looks like zetec then ..1.8 or 2.0 with 8v head ?

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

Quite possibly my man

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Lol ..might just stick 2 bar thorough a std engine see how long it lasts lol

jessie_rs

depends on your budget. I built my old series 2 on same mentality of christian majors first engine build:
t34
big valve head
newman cam
greens
lowered compression pistons
standard rods
standard gearbox
ap paddle clutch
cossie management set up by msd sounded great and was a comfortable 250bhp.

Thats all possible and on a budget.

Christian Major initially built an engine with just skimmed standard pistons, head work and a t34 running 270bhp for a number of years and top speed runs.

More of a budget way of doing things. All steel cvh are just big money, zvh/zetec engines are so torquey you then have the gearbox issues.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Jessie cheere mate

Chas

My S1 RST has run 3 engines over the years from what I can tell regarding its history.

It ran a 1.9 Long block CVH which ran 240 and 270BHP depending on where the boost was set.

The bottom end was then swapped for a 1.8 Zetec unit. At a recent rolling road it made 225BHP at 18PSi where people felt he was a little conservative with the figures so probably accurate! From what I can tell the spec is the following:

Stage 3 head?
Piper 285T camshaft?
Piper Vernier pulley
Calibra Turbo or Omega pistons?
Bosch KE Jetronic
MFII 5th Injector.
CR Turbos Hybrid T3 - 2WD Cosworth compressor housing with .55A/R wheel, ball bearings with -31 actuator (TSF02 for anyone wishing to know the code).
Pace chargecooler with larger charge radiator
Single box exhaust system
MkV Gearbox with pedal assembly and Helix 4 paddle clutch.


The ?s represent where I am a little unsure of the spec. The graph however was not too bad with the fuelling being more than safe. If I knew more about the internals I may have been tempted to turn the boost up a notch but for now it seems to be running well at 18PSi:



With the exception the clutch (a Helix 4 paddle ; don't get one if you can avoid doing so!) it is actually a very drivable engine.
Whilst I know a Zetec would slay it for power and potentially reliability there is something about the sound of a turbocharged C(Z)VH.

I guess if I was to go further with mine I would probably look to getting the pistons and rods changes as well as changing the fuelling system to a standalone system.

gus

iTrader: (1)

For 260bhp I would need to turn the boost down

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Cheers Chas ..great write up .

GUS that helps alot ::

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Personally I would build a full ZT, it's cheaper and more reliable.
But otherwise a forged CVH bottom end, Newman cam kit, NMS worked head, .48/55 T3.
I would not build a ZVH, the cost is more than that of a CVH build and achieves no more power.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Cheers Karlos. .what's rough price for a having a zetec built mate roughly .

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Anyone else ? .. I'm. Really liking the idea of what Christian major did with the CVH .

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

i would definatley go with the zetec turbo route matt,

blocks ,heads ,cranks,all still available new and the bonus of 16 valve

slammedorion

250bhp Zetec turbo, you'd probably get away with arp bolts, and a de-comp plate...
Cheap as chips...
Just need to sort oil feed, plus return out...
Focus RS manifolds, turbos bolt straight up... Make it as easy as you like really...

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I absolutely would (given the choice) go full zetec turbo. The CVH head is the worst part of the engine and suffers terribly with poor lubrication.

Decide on your budget. I have had 250bhp from a standard zetec with a 4x4 cosworth t3 on it but personally would spend the time and money to make it reliable which for me would mean pistons, rods and arp's a new ford oil pump and a careful rebuild.

With standard cams and head you will piss 250-260 with a gt2560 for super low lag but well over 300bhp is a doddle with cams and a turbo on a zetec.

The power delivery of the zetec is much more modern?!!? You get a flatter torque curve at higher RPM which makes them feel better, ie they pull to the limiter nicely. Most CVH's which road profile cams and small turbos, ie the ones with lag that doesn't destroy your sanity tend to have monstrous midrange torque which falls away quickly with VE, so after its gone the last 2000 rpm always feels like a let down, and although correct cam, head and turbo choice negate this the zetec does it out the box.

But once again, for my money 250-260bhp is just the perfect road rs turbo, any more and its just a compromise between reliability, drivability and torque where its needed 99% of the time.

But I have to admit that there is something very likeable about a cvh with a big turbo

Good luck, I hope you enjoy the reminder... ie why you sold up last time lol

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

With no disrespect to Christian, if even he were to do the same thing again and didn't want to prove that the cvh 'could do it' he would be bonkers to not choose a zetec (or even something else) as a base. He must have spent more than 10K on his engines (build and dev) perhaps more. 5K in a zetec turbo gets to 400bhp, 6-8K gets you 500. 1K less if you self building and are careful with your spending, 2K more if your sensible and go dry sump.

Rob,

It's Czech Mate

If you want to stick to cvh then i'd be ignoring the above untill i'd spoken to Karl at NMS.......he has always had good results with cvh based engines

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

He seems pretty open to the zetec route... read above.... so why would you ignore the above?

mjonathan24

iTrader: (1)

I would use a zetec block of some description... possibly focus rs. Then the cvh head. Karl at NMS will help you out.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

Karl told me if want cheap power buy a mk1 focus rs engine an fit it will be cheapest.

gingeRS

dont bother.....never go back as they say

just take all the money you were planning on ploughing into a CVH so it munches a gearbox every few weeks and put it into a focus ST or MK1 RS

It's Czech Mate

I didn't say totally ignore it...I just said speak to Karl FIRST before considering the other options.....after all the OP is asking about a CVH?

Nosmonkey

For the price of modifying the cvh for that sort of power ZT would be much easier. The only reason you'd want to stay CVH is for originality or you've already sunk a few grand into it and don't have the heart to pull it out!

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Thanks everyone .. as rob says 250-260 makes a nice road rs turbo ..

As for saving my cash and having a st or Frs. .I've had enough focus Rs's to last me a life time ..just got a itch for a nice clean turbo .

Cvh ..Zvh or full blown zetec ..I'm just undecided now ..its been over 10 years since I've drove a rs turbo .

jessie_rs

thats the harder bit now finding a nice clean one!

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

If not ill have to restore the best I can find ..I've 6k to buy one and around 2 k on engine maybe a but more

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

2k on engine with a cvh won't go far . You'll probably get a fairly decent spec engine and not alot else . You'll want to go Efi which will cost about a grand give or take depending on what system you want to use so bare that in mind too .

6k should get you a nice clean car if you don't mind sifting through all the shitters dreamers out in eBay

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

I can go alot further ..but for 260 horse in ain't going stupid ..I was over the 200 bhp in 1999 with hardly alot done and sorted by msd .does it really get that much to squeeze another 60 bhp