Karlos G - AKA Frenzy Performance Tuning (FPT)
18-03-2015, 07:59 PM
#1
Karlos G - AKA Frenzy Performance Tuning (FPT)
Well I thought I would share my experience with FPT. Cut a long story short I was running cosworth l8 management which I had taken to MSD to have a custom map which ended up not being done due to a cam position sensor error, james had tried plenty of things to put this right but he mentioned he's only seen a handful of cossie managed rs turbos that work properly and its best left on a cosworth, so I was left with a poor running motor as MSD was to busy to spend the time to try fix this problem plus james recommended changing management.
So... after a few messages with karl the car was trailered to FPT (Karlos G) 190 mile trip to have a after a market management system with a brand new unterminated loom which the cosworth management paid for as I sold it all and still had money left over! BONUS
so karl stripped all the cosworth stuff out and installed the brand new management / loom / connectors. Other jobs were done such as a water pump repair and rear crank seal changed plus some other niggles which all made for a much better car. Karl himself is a very nice down to earth guy who tells you exactly how it is and keeps you fully update with how things are going which is great! I now have the car home fully mapped on a new management system and what can I say its a totally different car its brutal ! to say am happy is a understatement the car is a joy to drive now and feels amazing. I would absolutely recommended this guy to work on your car for any works.
So a BIG BIG thankyou to karl at frenzy performance tuning, one very happy customer! the car will be back in the future, definitely worth the drive.
Thanks again karl and all the best.
Richard
So... after a few messages with karl the car was trailered to FPT (Karlos G) 190 mile trip to have a after a market management system with a brand new unterminated loom which the cosworth management paid for as I sold it all and still had money left over! BONUS
so karl stripped all the cosworth stuff out and installed the brand new management / loom / connectors. Other jobs were done such as a water pump repair and rear crank seal changed plus some other niggles which all made for a much better car. Karl himself is a very nice down to earth guy who tells you exactly how it is and keeps you fully update with how things are going which is great! I now have the car home fully mapped on a new management system and what can I say its a totally different car its brutal ! to say am happy is a understatement the car is a joy to drive now and feels amazing. I would absolutely recommended this guy to work on your car for any works.So a BIG BIG thankyou to karl at frenzy performance tuning, one very happy customer! the car will be back in the future, definitely worth the drive.
Thanks again karl and all the best.
Richard
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doga-ot (18-03-2015)
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18-03-2015, 10:24 PM
#8
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Best thing I did was getting shut of the cossie management, once my initial issue with new management was fixed the old cvh was a lot better to drive and a lot more economical. My zetec turbo is awesome on fuel and can usually do about 50 miles of mixed driving per Ł10 of super unleaded, but I put that down to the skills of the mapper.
19-03-2015, 08:34 AM
#10
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
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Nothing better than when the cars been mapped real good. What management you got now? What boost and power etc? Didn't realise msd was telling people not to go the cosworth management route, did they recommend this new management to you? Car looks perfect btw
19-03-2015, 11:16 AM
#11
MSD said they've only had a handful of good ones that work properly, at the end of the day it belongs on a cosworth. James recomend changing management due to the hassle of getting a perfect CPS signal. Mine was showing a error at around 5k rpm so I thought bollocks to it am going aftermarket best decision Ive ever made! The management is called GEN8 works perfectly. The engine is a 2.0ltr zvh, efi inlet, cossie throttle bodie, green injectors, worked head, Newman cvh cam kit, forged Pistons, pro alloy front mounted intercooler with optional turbo cooler, airtec rad, mocal oil cooler, CTS stage 2+ gearbox, AP 4paddle clutch, cossie discs and pads all round. That's of the top of my head. I'll get some more pictures up
Power wise it's running 20psi Karl reckons it's in the region 260-270bhp it's bloody fast that's all I know, brutal.
Power wise it's running 20psi Karl reckons it's in the region 260-270bhp it's bloody fast that's all I know, brutal.
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james kiely (19-03-2015)
19-03-2015, 12:46 PM
#17
Thats a very strange statment that I know james also stu would not of said. Think how much bussiness this statment would lose them as a company who is known as one of the leaders in the country.
Stu has had supplied and fitted this management and has had great results by his own mouth.
Considering the management has nothing to do with cosworth in any way I find it very funny.
Its also fitted to over 50 cars on the market making it one of the most widely used management systems in the world.
If your happy thats all that counts, if it was me I would of just fixed whatever issue you had and saved the money in changing to another system that will make no difference to power or control etc etc. Its all in the fine tuning. Either you know how or you blame something else.
Without a doubt it cost more to change than fixing whatever the problem was.
So what setup manifold and inlet sensors etc are you running now.
Stu has had supplied and fitted this management and has had great results by his own mouth.
Considering the management has nothing to do with cosworth in any way I find it very funny.
Its also fitted to over 50 cars on the market making it one of the most widely used management systems in the world.
If your happy thats all that counts, if it was me I would of just fixed whatever issue you had and saved the money in changing to another system that will make no difference to power or control etc etc. Its all in the fine tuning. Either you know how or you blame something else.
Without a doubt it cost more to change than fixing whatever the problem was.
So what setup manifold and inlet sensors etc are you running now.
19-03-2015, 01:13 PM
#18
Jano I wouldn't lie and make something up on this website when it's in black and white for MSD to see, James recommended changing the management and that's what I did. It didn't cost more because the cosworth management paid for it. At didn't write this thread to open a can of worms about which management is best. But imo surely something which is brand new with a brand new loom is more desirable than a 20year old loom / management which is designed for a cosworth not an Rs turbo.
19-03-2015, 01:34 PM
#19
I was just being honest really,
Sure the weber ECU can be used and I have mapped plenty that have worked fine, but at the end of the day you are making brackets using different sensors for different jobs etc, I've also seen plenty arrive for mapping with issues that can be time consuming to trace and fix.
So if asked what would I do, if I was building one of these I would be using an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable,( we can fit and map these too!) and would more than likely end up more cost effective for the owner in the long run, especially when you can end up paying Ł50-Ł80 per hour to diagnose and fix issues. I think the last 3 that have come in for mapping have had sync issues and hit a limiter at 5500rpm which is not the rev limiter, the customer assumed the car was running totally fine.
I've seen quite a few knock out crank (phase) sensors as the gap has to be so small, and the bracket moves, then there's the fact you have no workshop settings to follow, so how does somebody set them up?
Many people think its the cheaper option which is why they go this route, but often its not, by the time you have purchased all the weber stuff second hand, then fixed the broken bits, purchased a new loom if needed, then headed into the errors you get from phase and crank sync issues, using a crank sensor instead of a phase with a tiny gap, spent time timing it all up, fitting brackets here and there, at the end of it all you then are very limited to tuners for Weber mapping of good quality, and at the end of the day it does come down to budget and what you get for the money,
which is why If I was going this route with an RST I would go straight to aftermarket where you can decide what you want to do, what sensors you want to run, and its far easier to get great results from.
Sure the weber ECU can be used and I have mapped plenty that have worked fine, but at the end of the day you are making brackets using different sensors for different jobs etc, I've also seen plenty arrive for mapping with issues that can be time consuming to trace and fix.
So if asked what would I do, if I was building one of these I would be using an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable,( we can fit and map these too!) and would more than likely end up more cost effective for the owner in the long run, especially when you can end up paying Ł50-Ł80 per hour to diagnose and fix issues. I think the last 3 that have come in for mapping have had sync issues and hit a limiter at 5500rpm which is not the rev limiter, the customer assumed the car was running totally fine.
I've seen quite a few knock out crank (phase) sensors as the gap has to be so small, and the bracket moves, then there's the fact you have no workshop settings to follow, so how does somebody set them up?
Many people think its the cheaper option which is why they go this route, but often its not, by the time you have purchased all the weber stuff second hand, then fixed the broken bits, purchased a new loom if needed, then headed into the errors you get from phase and crank sync issues, using a crank sensor instead of a phase with a tiny gap, spent time timing it all up, fitting brackets here and there, at the end of it all you then are very limited to tuners for Weber mapping of good quality, and at the end of the day it does come down to budget and what you get for the money,
which is why If I was going this route with an RST I would go straight to aftermarket where you can decide what you want to do, what sensors you want to run, and its far easier to get great results from.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 19-03-2015 at 01:58 PM.
19-03-2015, 01:39 PM
#20
Ric its not designed for any car Not a cosworth! Or rst!
Its designed for every car.
In simple english the ecu is fitted to almost any type of engine you can think of.
New looms are available for any management you get what you pay for. If you have the money for a new loom buy one. Many people have and I can assure you that no other loom will match the rachemdr25 loom we use.
Then you go on to say a 20 year old management. The funny thing is its still for sale today at Ł1800 for an ecu. Still does exactly the same thing it done 20 years ago because there is no need to change something that works so well.
Lastly...what your saying is that MSD are going to tell their customers to change management. I find that hard to belive.
This is how most systems work.
If I fit any management whatever it may be I get it for trade and sell it on at the rrp which I am not allowed to lower. Each one I sell I make x amount of money. If I sell new stuff I make more money simple.
However I choose to use a weber ecu, make no money on parts like ecu etc
I get the same results if not better than the next car for much less money.
If there was a better way I would be doing it.
After 15 years I get to see what works and who benifits.
Dont get me wrong there is better.
Pectel
life racing
Now compare the prices of these proper ecu's to a weber one. Both will do the same job.
Botto line is im glad your happy whatever way, just dont give out false info without understaning it all.
Also ric you have been to every tuner in the coutry, everything is fine untill you get a small issue and then you spit your dummy out and the best tuner turns out to be the worst in your eyes.
Do you still talk to jamie who went out of his way to help you when you had the massive crash with that lorry. He drove down all the way to me for your bumper and bonnet etc. He really did help u out with no appreciation from you.
The blokes a real gent.
Its designed for every car.
In simple english the ecu is fitted to almost any type of engine you can think of.
New looms are available for any management you get what you pay for. If you have the money for a new loom buy one. Many people have and I can assure you that no other loom will match the rachemdr25 loom we use.
Then you go on to say a 20 year old management. The funny thing is its still for sale today at Ł1800 for an ecu. Still does exactly the same thing it done 20 years ago because there is no need to change something that works so well.
Lastly...what your saying is that MSD are going to tell their customers to change management. I find that hard to belive.
This is how most systems work.
If I fit any management whatever it may be I get it for trade and sell it on at the rrp which I am not allowed to lower. Each one I sell I make x amount of money. If I sell new stuff I make more money simple.
However I choose to use a weber ecu, make no money on parts like ecu etc
I get the same results if not better than the next car for much less money.
If there was a better way I would be doing it.
After 15 years I get to see what works and who benifits.
Dont get me wrong there is better.
Pectel
life racing
Now compare the prices of these proper ecu's to a weber one. Both will do the same job.
Botto line is im glad your happy whatever way, just dont give out false info without understaning it all.
Also ric you have been to every tuner in the coutry, everything is fine untill you get a small issue and then you spit your dummy out and the best tuner turns out to be the worst in your eyes.
Do you still talk to jamie who went out of his way to help you when you had the massive crash with that lorry. He drove down all the way to me for your bumper and bonnet etc. He really did help u out with no appreciation from you.
The blokes a real gent.
19-03-2015, 01:58 PM
#24
What the fuck Jano, why even bother bringing Jamie into it!!!! Me and Jamie are fine. The reason he drove to your place to pick a bumper and bonnet up is because ford who Jamie works for was repairing it. Look James has confirmed what I said... How strange!
19-03-2015, 02:20 PM
#25
I was just being honest really,
Sure the weber ECU can be used and I have mapped plenty that have worked fine, but at the end of the day you are making brackets using different sensors for different jobs etc, I've also seen plenty arrive for mapping with issues that can be time consuming to trace and fix.
So if asked what would I do, if I was building one of these I would be using an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable,( we can fit and map these too!) and would more than likely end up more cost effective for the owner in the long run, especially when you can end up paying Ł50-Ł80 per hour to diagnose and fix issues. I think the last 3 that have come in for mapping have had sync issues and hit a limiter at 5500rpm which is not the rev limiter, the customer assumed the car was running totally fine.
I've seen quite a few knock out crank (phase) sensors as the gap has to be so small, and the bracket moves, then there's the fact you have no workshop settings to follow, so how does somebody set them up?
Many people think its the cheaper option which is why they go this route, but often its not, by the time you have purchased all the weber stuff second hand, then fixed the broken bits, purchased a new loom if needed, then headed into the errors you get from phase and crank sync issues, using a crank sensor instead of a phase with a tiny gap, spent time timing it all up, fitting brackets here and there, at the end of it all you then are very limited to tuners for Weber mapping of good quality, and at the end of the day it does come down to budget and what you get for the money,
which is why If I was going this route with an RST I would go straight to aftermarket where you can decide what you want to do, what sensors you want to run, and its far easier to get great results from.
Sure the weber ECU can be used and I have mapped plenty that have worked fine, but at the end of the day you are making brackets using different sensors for different jobs etc, I've also seen plenty arrive for mapping with issues that can be time consuming to trace and fix.
So if asked what would I do, if I was building one of these I would be using an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable,( we can fit and map these too!) and would more than likely end up more cost effective for the owner in the long run, especially when you can end up paying Ł50-Ł80 per hour to diagnose and fix issues. I think the last 3 that have come in for mapping have had sync issues and hit a limiter at 5500rpm which is not the rev limiter, the customer assumed the car was running totally fine.
I've seen quite a few knock out crank (phase) sensors as the gap has to be so small, and the bracket moves, then there's the fact you have no workshop settings to follow, so how does somebody set them up?
Many people think its the cheaper option which is why they go this route, but often its not, by the time you have purchased all the weber stuff second hand, then fixed the broken bits, purchased a new loom if needed, then headed into the errors you get from phase and crank sync issues, using a crank sensor instead of a phase with a tiny gap, spent time timing it all up, fitting brackets here and there, at the end of it all you then are very limited to tuners for Weber mapping of good quality, and at the end of the day it does come down to budget and what you get for the money,
which is why If I was going this route with an RST I would go straight to aftermarket where you can decide what you want to do, what sensors you want to run, and its far easier to get great results from.
19-03-2015, 02:38 PM
#26
At the end of the day It sounds like you now have the car working nicely and are happy with it, and it ended up cost effective, and that is all I ever try to get as a result.
im always honest with my opinion, it may not be the same as everyone else's.
im always honest with my opinion, it may not be the same as everyone else's.
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Rsmat (05-06-2015)
19-03-2015, 02:44 PM
#27
TBH James its honesty that will get you business in the future so good on you, most people would have said anything to get a sale. Although I have to say MSD does seem to have a reputation to support this anyway so its not a shock.
Rob,
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 19-03-2015 at 03:18 PM.
19-03-2015, 03:42 PM
#29
If using L8 and then adding all the gubbins for anti-lag, wasted-spark, etc its far cheaper to go aftermarket as you will end up with a better ecu which is faster, has more options and a new loom - all for less than the price of an L8 and loom
PS> Well done Karlos
PS> Well done Karlos
19-03-2015, 04:16 PM
#30
L8 ecu Ł250 / new loom made Ł500 / pf09 tps Ł100 there's Ł850 to start with roughly possibly more! never mind the rest of the parts, map sensor etc etc. then there's mapping Ł450-500, Then your limited on who can map it. Then all extras are at an extra cost ( anti lag - launch control etc etc. this ecu on my car has the lot and is freshly brand new, no high resistance wiring! No brainer if you ask me.
Last edited by RSricRS; 19-03-2015 at 04:18 PM.
19-03-2015, 04:41 PM
#31
Thats a very strange statment that I know james also stu would not of said. Think how much bussiness this statment would lose them as a company who is known as one of the leaders in the country.
Stu has had supplied and fitted this management and has had great results by his own mouth.
Considering the management has nothing to do with cosworth in any way I find it very funny.
Its also fitted to over 50 cars on the market making it one of the most widely used management systems in the world.
If your happy thats all that counts, if it was me I would of just fixed whatever issue you had and saved the money in changing to another system that will make no difference to power or control etc etc. Its all in the fine tuning. Either you know how or you blame something else.
Without a doubt it cost more to change than fixing whatever the problem was.
So what setup manifold and inlet sensors etc are you running now.
Stu has had supplied and fitted this management and has had great results by his own mouth.
Considering the management has nothing to do with cosworth in any way I find it very funny.
Its also fitted to over 50 cars on the market making it one of the most widely used management systems in the world.
If your happy thats all that counts, if it was me I would of just fixed whatever issue you had and saved the money in changing to another system that will make no difference to power or control etc etc. Its all in the fine tuning. Either you know how or you blame something else.
Without a doubt it cost more to change than fixing whatever the problem was.
So what setup manifold and inlet sensors etc are you running now.
Ric its not designed for any car Not a cosworth! Or rst!
Its designed for every car.
In simple english the ecu is fitted to almost any type of engine you can think of.
New looms are available for any management you get what you pay for. If you have the money for a new loom buy one. Many people have and I can assure you that no other loom will match the rachemdr25 loom we use.
Then you go on to say a 20 year old management. The funny thing is its still for sale today at Ł1800 for an ecu. Still does exactly the same thing it done 20 years ago because there is no need to change something that works so well.
Lastly...what your saying is that MSD are going to tell their customers to change management. I find that hard to belive.
This is how most systems work.
If I fit any management whatever it may be I get it for trade and sell it on at the rrp which I am not allowed to lower. Each one I sell I make x amount of money. If I sell new stuff I make more money simple.
However I choose to use a weber ecu, make no money on parts like ecu etc
I get the same results if not better than the next car for much less money.
If there was a better way I would be doing it.
After 15 years I get to see what works and who benifits.
Dont get me wrong there is better.
Pectel
life racing
Now compare the prices of these proper ecu's to a weber one. Both will do the same job.
Botto line is im glad your happy whatever way, just dont give out false info without understaning it all.
Also ric you have been to every tuner in the coutry, everything is fine untill you get a small issue and then you spit your dummy out and the best tuner turns out to be the worst in your eyes.
Do you still talk to jamie who went out of his way to help you when you had the massive crash with that lorry. He drove down all the way to me for your bumper and bonnet etc. He really did help u out with no appreciation from you.
The blokes a real gent.
Its designed for every car.
In simple english the ecu is fitted to almost any type of engine you can think of.
New looms are available for any management you get what you pay for. If you have the money for a new loom buy one. Many people have and I can assure you that no other loom will match the rachemdr25 loom we use.
Then you go on to say a 20 year old management. The funny thing is its still for sale today at Ł1800 for an ecu. Still does exactly the same thing it done 20 years ago because there is no need to change something that works so well.
Lastly...what your saying is that MSD are going to tell their customers to change management. I find that hard to belive.
This is how most systems work.
If I fit any management whatever it may be I get it for trade and sell it on at the rrp which I am not allowed to lower. Each one I sell I make x amount of money. If I sell new stuff I make more money simple.
However I choose to use a weber ecu, make no money on parts like ecu etc
I get the same results if not better than the next car for much less money.
If there was a better way I would be doing it.
After 15 years I get to see what works and who benifits.
Dont get me wrong there is better.
Pectel
life racing
Now compare the prices of these proper ecu's to a weber one. Both will do the same job.
Botto line is im glad your happy whatever way, just dont give out false info without understaning it all.
Also ric you have been to every tuner in the coutry, everything is fine untill you get a small issue and then you spit your dummy out and the best tuner turns out to be the worst in your eyes.
Do you still talk to jamie who went out of his way to help you when you had the massive crash with that lorry. He drove down all the way to me for your bumper and bonnet etc. He really did help u out with no appreciation from you.
The blokes a real gent.
I was just being honest really,
Sure the weber ECU can be used and I have mapped plenty that have worked fine, but at the end of the day you are making brackets using different sensors for different jobs etc, I've also seen plenty arrive for mapping with issues that can be time consuming to trace and fix.
So if asked what would I do, if I was building one of these I would be using an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable,( we can fit and map these too!) and would more than likely end up more cost effective for the owner in the long run, especially when you can end up paying Ł50-Ł80 per hour to diagnose and fix issues. I think the last 3 that have come in for mapping have had sync issues and hit a limiter at 5500rpm which is not the rev limiter, the customer assumed the car was running totally fine.
I've seen quite a few knock out crank (phase) sensors as the gap has to be so small, and the bracket moves, then there's the fact you have no workshop settings to follow, so how does somebody set them up?
Many people think its the cheaper option which is why they go this route, but often its not, by the time you have purchased all the weber stuff second hand, then fixed the broken bits, purchased a new loom if needed, then headed into the errors you get from phase and crank sync issues, using a crank sensor instead of a phase with a tiny gap, spent time timing it all up, fitting brackets here and there, at the end of it all you then are very limited to tuners for Weber mapping of good quality, and at the end of the day it does come down to budget and what you get for the money,
which is why If I was going this route with an RST I would go straight to aftermarket where you can decide what you want to do, what sensors you want to run, and its far easier to get great results from.
Sure the weber ECU can be used and I have mapped plenty that have worked fine, but at the end of the day you are making brackets using different sensors for different jobs etc, I've also seen plenty arrive for mapping with issues that can be time consuming to trace and fix.
So if asked what would I do, if I was building one of these I would be using an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable,( we can fit and map these too!) and would more than likely end up more cost effective for the owner in the long run, especially when you can end up paying Ł50-Ł80 per hour to diagnose and fix issues. I think the last 3 that have come in for mapping have had sync issues and hit a limiter at 5500rpm which is not the rev limiter, the customer assumed the car was running totally fine.
I've seen quite a few knock out crank (phase) sensors as the gap has to be so small, and the bracket moves, then there's the fact you have no workshop settings to follow, so how does somebody set them up?
Many people think its the cheaper option which is why they go this route, but often its not, by the time you have purchased all the weber stuff second hand, then fixed the broken bits, purchased a new loom if needed, then headed into the errors you get from phase and crank sync issues, using a crank sensor instead of a phase with a tiny gap, spent time timing it all up, fitting brackets here and there, at the end of it all you then are very limited to tuners for Weber mapping of good quality, and at the end of the day it does come down to budget and what you get for the money,
which is why If I was going this route with an RST I would go straight to aftermarket where you can decide what you want to do, what sensors you want to run, and its far easier to get great results from.
Jano's post is a great example of why a rarely agree with what he says on here.....
lol
Last edited by Karlos G; 19-03-2015 at 05:44 PM.
19-03-2015, 06:29 PM
#35
Botto line is im glad your happy whatever way, just dont give out false info without understaning it all.
Also ric you have been to every tuner in the coutry, everything is fine untill you get a small issue and then you spit your dummy out and the best tuner turns out to be the worst in your eyes.
Also ric you have been to every tuner in the coutry, everything is fine untill you get a small issue and then you spit your dummy out and the best tuner turns out to be the worst in your eyes.
19-03-2015, 09:50 PM
#36
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Car looks cool and always good to hear stories of praise on here as opposed to the usual negativity.
Have to agree, wouldn't bother with Cossie management when you can have new aftermarket for a similar price. Cossie stuff on an RST is overpriced and over hyped in comparison to say OFAM.
Lee
Have to agree, wouldn't bother with Cossie management when you can have new aftermarket for a similar price. Cossie stuff on an RST is overpriced and over hyped in comparison to say OFAM.
Lee
20-03-2015, 12:28 PM
#38
Advanced PassionFord User
Sorry if iv missed it but what managment are you running now? And out of intrest how much is that for the complete kit fitting and mapping ect?
All i can say is when i had both of mine running on weber it ran faultlessly cold start up was perfect ect after mapping weather i was potering around town or on a motorway ect it was perfect for me.just my experiance.......
All i can say is when i had both of mine running on weber it ran faultlessly cold start up was perfect ect after mapping weather i was potering around town or on a motorway ect it was perfect for me.just my experiance.......
20-03-2015, 12:33 PM
#39
He's running Boost Monkeys GEN8 management, I can't give out prices etc. as I'm not a paid up trader on here.
Yeah it's fine if it's all working 100% and you already have it installed... Just not wort fitting it when there are so many other choices these days.
Yeah it's fine if it's all working 100% and you already have it installed... Just not wort fitting it when there are so many other choices these days.
Last edited by Karlos G; 20-03-2015 at 12:34 PM.
20-03-2015, 03:06 PM
#40
Sorry if iv missed it but what managment are you running now? And out of intrest how much is that for the complete kit fitting and mapping ect?
All i can say is when i had both of mine running on weber it ran faultlessly cold start up was perfect ect after mapping weather i was potering around town or on a motorway ect it was perfect for me.just my experiance.......
All i can say is when i had both of mine running on weber it ran faultlessly cold start up was perfect ect after mapping weather i was potering around town or on a motorway ect it was perfect for me.just my experiance.......