Piston Broke

Well my track build is done (i hope) and will see what we can get from it in the morning for ART in Wake'y. Never used them but the bloke there is meant to be good, so if the car lasts its set-up its then to croft on the 1st December................ fingers crossed lol

Will let you know what the place is like and if the car even gets there

mgtkr1

keep us posted

visa_broke

whats the specs of the car?

good luck for tomorrow

mgtkr1

ill take a stab, 180 at the wheels

Piston Broke

Right went well, found a fault on the Amal spiking boost. So with that bypassed for now untill its sorted was set up. Tony at ART was a nice bloke, doesnt adjust the fuel on the pressure unit as says it causes problems........ so as suspected not sure there. Said anything power wise over 180 blows them so went for 180 as straight forward. Only cost Ł90 all in and he did about 5 runs sorting it and adjusting timing and boost. Loads better but think will go to MSD or Jano in the future to see what there like. Like i say nice bloke and happy but would call it a basic setup. Will use again tho. So with the boost set at 15psi i have enough power, he could of adjusted the timing etc he said for around another 15-20 bhp but i dont want it on its max, I am running a laggy turbo tho that doesnt kick in till around 3800 rpm which is what i wanted.

haz87

Thats beyond basic!
Take it elsewhere BEFORE Croft, fuelling is critical!

Oh and "anything power wise over 180 blows them"

Piston Broke

I was supposition before i went and did a post on here and people said he was good, and did adjust the fuel but when talking to him he said there was never a need which fucked my head as the AFR needs setting to the boost ?? fuck knows now but where do you go running out of hope lol

mgtkr1

I think there good for 220 on std management and internals, if the fuel system is in good nick. well at least you know its safe but for proper potential id go with jano, msd, nms, ect ect.that area 52 are supposed to be decent although I haven't personal experience. I will be looking at 200 at the wheels hopefully and was gonna use art but I think ill use a someone who can unleash the available power. what did you make today?

Piston Broke

He did touch the fueling and says he NEVER HAS as it fucks them, no it doesnt but anyway i thought that was the main part of the setup, he only set it to just over 180 at the flywheel mate, need to go else where, want to go to MSD or Jano as good things said. I do have a hot start fault (fuel issue) which is a must do but never have bloody time.

It used to make loads bhp last time i had it set up but that was another place. I think ART are not that good due to not touching the fuel, and doesnt like setting them up past 9 psi he said due to them only lasting half a track day.................. he has fucked me off and now have headache, i guess the one good thing was i found my amal was knackered so 1 good thing and timing has been adjusted

mgtkr1

what was your timing at before? if he has knocked the boost back im guessing he will have set the timing to the standard 12degrees., assuming your on about ignition timing. I think I might invenst in some equipment to monitor things such as a/f ratio ect. if your handy with the spanners then you could learn to set the mfi system up yourself

Piston Broke

I own a garage and yer need to learn but no one tells you the ideal AFRs lol, which is fair play but could do with knowing, think he set ign at 14 and boost at 15 as wanted more than bloody 9 lol

Piston Broke

I have a AFR on the car, defo worth the money, save your engine maybe

mgtkr1

the ignition 14 degrees btdc??

mgtkr1

on boost a/f'rs want to be 11.5 to 12 I think. but im not 100%.

Mark Shead

Who's chip does it have. Did he listen for dett and what was the afr on boost.

Mark

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

In all honesty if what you say is exactly what he said then he's talking crap and should not be tuning RST's, if you increase boost then you must set the fuelling to match, did he use any detonation monitoring equipment? Do you have a print out of an AFR or Lambda graph, did he even monitor the fuelling? What was wrong with the Amal to cause a boost spike?

Piston Broke

No didnt touch fuelling with the boost at all kept asking him why he doesnt he said it shouldn't be touched, im not a RS tuner i work on other stuff so carnt say your wrong to him but did say he was the only person who said you dont touch it. he had it hooked up to see the AFR, boost etc. No print out tho. Not sure whats wrong with the amal so removed it for now as it was spiking on me so that wasnt new.

Piston Broke

I rang Area 52 they said they dont do much with MFI only stand alone, thats another off the list. god knows where to go................ crap

haz87

A fairly basic understanding of the combustion engine gives you the right to tell them they clearly shouldn't be working near RST's let alone "tuning" them

Mark Shead

A chip from Ahmed will spike boost then drop it. So you may not have had a problem.

Mark

Piston Broke

Yes mate i understand what your saying but im not a person to say to another your not good etc until they have fair chance. He wasnt shit but i can only go of what people say, and people on here said he good............... but again what do they know, its down to trying differnt people i guess.l. SO THE BIG QUESTION, WHO CAN SET THEM UP YORKSHIRE AREA.

Piston Broke

See he sound know that shouldnt he, why does it spike the boost as it is one of his chips ??

nickscunny

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmm I was intending to use ART in a few weeks. ...

Mark Shead

They used to spike to 18psi dropping to 15psi this is how most where programmed.

Mark

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

TBH You'll struggle to find any MFI car that doesn't have some sort of spike as the boost control is very crude.

Piston Broke

I carnt say dont use the bloke as other cars he may be good, all im saying is i would make sure you get your fuelling set as he didnt touch mine and when asked he never does on any of the MFI systems so to me its no a setup

davidfox280585

To be honest I don't really think you know what he's done by the sounds of it,<br />
I have used tony for years and never had 1 issue<br />
He monitors fuelling and knock<br />
And very surprised he didn't give you a printout as I always get one, he's setup many of my turbos in mfi and I know of many cars been setup by tony and all have been very happy with there setup the guy is very knowledgeable and has been working on these cars when they were new<br />
I think if you have any issue then go see him instead of pulling his name down with some half full knowledge that you do not understand yourself<br />
Tony fitted and mapped the Dta on my Zetec turbo s1 and we managed 338hp at the wheels with plenty more scope<br />
Another thing is his dyno reads wheel hp not flywheel so I presume you have worked that out<br />
If you have gone there with issues then he will do what he can to sort your car out but if it's faulty there is only so much you can do, I have been there when heaps have turned up wanting setups with engines hanging out and wires twisted<br />
Tony would never fob you off only tell you to comeback when you have fixed your issues
Also why should he need to adjust your fuelling if it's fine already have you considered this he will monitor the afr on boost and see if it warrants adjustment

Piston Broke

Im not slagging the bloke !!!!!! already said that !!!! read above !!!!!, he stated to me he doesnt adjust the fueling, he never does on these, he said once there messed around with they can go out very easy of sinc. I know the MFI system is crap in that sence. He didnt fob me off and where did i say he did ???

I didnt get a print out due to the time the turbo kicked in so the graph was all over, i never sid i had an issue with the fact i didnt get one. All im saying is people here (tuners) always ALWAYS say the fuel needs adjusting as soon as the boost is touched, no adjustment was made from going from 6psi all the way to 15 psi (maybe 16 psi he said) so please read the post before you start saying im slagging the bloke !

And i do know what im talking about thanks fella, im not zoned into the full workings of the MFI fuel ecu system like the enrichment crontrols etc but FULLY UNDERSTAND the importance of timing and the correct AFRs.

Read the post, said he was a nice bloke and car was loads better and found a problem (maybe not a problem) with the amal spiking. God just chill

I also know that 140bhp was at the wheel as he didnt want to push more than that as track use so would blow the engine with much more power, the car had no other faults apart from a hot start enrichment issue (take a bit longer to start when hot).

Fuck me i said the bloke was a nice guy

mgtkr1

it may have been rich at 6 psi. and spot on at the boost he set it up with.

davidfox280585

So what is your spec is it a standard engine on mfi
As said if the fuelling didn't need touching then why touch it I think you are slating the guy without knowing fully 100% what he has done and has not if he set it at a higher boost level I can assure you it will be right
Why would you want to run your car on maximum output on a trackday its a damn fire way to blow it up,
So it made 140 at the wheels so what is the spec?

Piston Broke

My issue isnt the power made im happy with the power made for the track my issue/question was should the fuel be adjusted as part of a setup on the MFI setup. .................. the tuners answer was YES.

The AFR figures i get are lean when asking the tuners so..............does it need adjusting then ?? and no im NOT SLATING THE GUY i am asking a question. I liked the bloke and had a good chat about the mapping we do at my garage on systems he is learning about.

If its right by his experiance then fine but advise is the apple of every tree. compared to what people say here the afr is lean......... lean norm means pop. its about 12.6-13.5 on full boost. That is lean as others on here near all say should be around 11-12 at 15 psi.

davidfox280585

Then take it elsewhere you still haven't mentioned the spec? If you are chasing figures then ditch the mfi as it is. 30 year old system which was shit at the best of times
If your insure take it back and raise your concerns

Piston Broke

Im not chasing any figures so why does spec matter ???. I just want it to be within a aloud limit of fuelling THATS WHAT I WAS ASKING. what you on about take it else where for, like i said Dave read the other post before saying im pulling the bloke as i dont like people saying/spreading shit that i havnt done, gets abit personal ! The whole point of these chat room things is to ask advise on setups, fueling etc etc etc

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Most of AB chips have a boost cut at 1bar so this is not normally an option of having an 18psi spike as it will cause the boost cut. If you bought a "chip" for the boost cut to be removed at the time of installation you would have to pay more.

Personally id rather a different chip on MFi. I find the Turbosystem unlimited chip to be the best all round.

Going by what has been said some obvious and important parts of the tune and setup have been missed. I would personally have it checked over by another tuner just to be sure. In all the years I have been tuning mfi engines not a single time have I had an engine that does NOT need the fueling adjusting. ??

Mark Shead

My dealings with Ahmed chips date back to 1995 and the options avl where boost cut at 22psi with a 18psi peak and 15psi held,
I asked for 22psi cut and hold boost rather than drop back at top revs the other was no boost limit with it holding boost,
I wasn't charged extra for any changes and this went on till around 2007 when I stopped doing RST,
So what I said was correct.


Mark

fiend

iTrader: (1)

This seems very odd and doesn't make sense.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

That is very lean on boost! IIRC your using a T34 yeah?
A T34 flows a lot more air at 16psi than a standard T3 so it's even more important that the fuelling is correct and that there is no det.

On a side note a lot of ECU's these days have failed map sensors resulting in static timing and no boost cut so what chip you are using may mean nothing if the timing was not checked (with a light) during the run.

mgtkr1

I honestly cant see any tuner allow a car to go out with those air/fuel ratios unless the owner insisted.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Do AB chips use proper closed loop PWM control for the Amal then Mark? Your speaking as though you can choose a target boost level (at the time of programming) and the ECU will aim to hit it, not something I thought could be done with those very basic ECU's.

Mark Shead

I couldn't tell you on that but fine tuning was done by act preload so my guess was a basic duty% on the amal valve.


Mark