FAO - zetec turbo people - how much spent/spec

[dave_s2_rst]

Currently running a zvh and have been contemplating on going full zetec, key question always comes down to price. What have you zetec owners spent and what have you gained.....apart from the headache cheers

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[crazycage]

its far less of a headache to keep the zetec head.a standard blacktop head and cams with just a set of uprated valve springs will do 350hp

[Zetec_mk4_XR3i]

lookin forward to replies as I am considering it too mate...

[sam2608]

yh and me

[Rob_DOHC]

You already have the majority of the parts lol

Not sure what you will need to do with pistons as i don't know how different the combustion chamber volume is between cvh (specifically your head) and zetec. Gary above should be able to fill you in about that..

Your mount is adapted, you have an oil drain etcetc, and i assume you are on efi?

So if compression ratios are no problem you should essentially be able to swap heads along with cam belt tensioner, water pump etc and be away.

Rob,

[crazycage]

Originally Posted by Rob_DOHC

You already have the majority of the parts lol

Not sure what you will need to do with pistons as i don't know how different the combustion chamber volume is between cvh (specifically your head) and zetec. Gary above should be able to fill you in about that..

Your mount is adapted, you have an oil drain etcetc, and i assume you are on efi?

So if compression ratios are no problem you should essentially be able to swap heads along with cam belt tensioner, water pump etc and be away.

Rob,

the head chamber on a blacktop is around 48cc

[Rob_DOHC]

I will have a measure up of my cvh head then, if no one else know the chamber volume (im sure if i did a search it would pop up).

But essentially a cheap and easy conversion for any one with a zvh already installed and running.

Rob,

[project rs]

an un skimmed cvh head is 60cc

[Karlos G]

CR will be too high then I'd guess, how much does losing 12cc increase the CR by?

[xr2wishy]

i'm going the zetec turbo route later this year, forged pistons and steel H section rods, there's nearly a grand.
the rest is simple, just uprated valve springs, blacktop would be better as cams have better bearings and solid lifters
i reckon on about £2k for a reasonable engine.

[sam2608]

becuase im running a zvh turbo to put the blacktop head on would i need to convert to electronic fuel injection?

[Karlos G]

Mate if your not going to run EFI then you may as well not bother, big waste of time lol

[conor.rst]

I would be intresting in doing a zetec turbo at some point maby when i have abit mre excperiance lol

[sam2608]

that will be the first thing i will do then, convert to EFI

[sam2608]

surly its going to be easyer and cheaper to buy the blacktop efi head and convert to efi with that head instead of coverting with the cvh head and then replacing the head again? u get me?
is there any gd place i can purchase a blacktop head from or it a case of searching around?
cheers

[mercgrey]

is it a blacktop bottom end tho? you can fit a blacktop head to a silvertop bottom end but you have to arse about with idler pullys, which imo aint worth it! get a compleate engine

[AstoN_B]

I got a 1.8 blacktop delivered with all ancils attached for £155. Im doing the while thing myself and trying to do it for cheap money. I'd like to prove that a modern reliable 220ish bhp blacktop can be done for very little money. For big power yeah you need to dig deep. But for reasonable power in a sub 1-tonne car, it can be done for half the big budgets.

[Rob_DOHC]

Like Karlos said mate, if you don't have efi there really is no point. Do this first.

tbh, you will probably pull 250brake with utter ease on a decent zvh, most people seem to get a solid 280 brake with out spending a fortune.

Aston_b, IMO i think you can build a 300brake zetec for the price of a standard rebuild, a t34 and some pistons.

Rob,

[crazycage]

you build my engine with both manifolds and gt28/30 for about 3k and good for 350hp all day.

[Rob_DOHC]

Lol, better make that standard manifolds and 300 brake Gary, As im pretty sure very few people on here have your welding ability!

Rob,

[dave_s2_rst]

first step will definatly be the efi before collecting bits for the zetec. After all I might just be satisfied with how it performs on efi and zvh. Have been looking at the efi conversion and seems rather much of a , but I guess once you get started it'll begin making sense!

cheers for the responses so far!

[sam2608]

yeh cheers for all the info, how do i find out if i have a blacktop or silver top bottem end?

[crazycage]

Originally Posted by Rob_DOHC

Lol, better make that standard manifolds and 300 brake Gary, As im pretty sure very few people on here have your welding ability!

Rob,

for what i charge for both manifolds it could be done.but then you still need a clutch,fpr injectors pump ect ect

[sam2608]

is there a simple way to work out if im running mfi or efi? aint had the car long and the guy didnt no exactly what was in it as its had alot of owners, it i no is that its xr3i chassis, 1990, but the 2.1zvh with the rs turbbo 1.6 head. im sure i read somewhere that after 1989 they changed from mfi to efi?
cheers

[sam2608]

it is mfi after all just got the haynes out n checked

[AstoN_B]

Originally Posted by Rob_DOHC

Like Karlos said mate, if you don't have efi there really is no point. Do this first.

tbh, you will probably pull 250brake with utter ease on a decent zvh, most people seem to get a solid 280 brake with out spending a fortune.

Aston_b, IMO i think you can build a 300brake zetec for the price of a standard rebuild, a t34 and some pistons.

Rob,

I'm converting from xr3i running mfi so my costing is increased from an efi turbo. Since I basically need everything from wiring to turbo etc and I'm choosing aftermarket management for the price difference over efi splicing.

[Chris69]

Originally Posted by sam2608

is there a simple way to work out if im running mfi or efi? aint had the car long and the guy didnt no exactly what was in it as its had alot of owners, it i no is that its xr3i chassis, 1990, but the 2.1zvh with the rs turbbo 1.6 head. im sure i read somewhere that after 1989 they changed from mfi to efi?
cheers

only on xr3i's the rst in escort form never saw an efi turbo engine.
the fiesta ran an efi turbo lump so this is a popular conversion.
if its efi chances are you'll have a big ally inlet with EFI stamped on it so its hard to miss

[project rs]

this doing things in stages is why my tiny cvh runs a t34 so now i have my turbo custom manifolds that'll only need a flange change already running megasquirt so all i need do is swap engines over and as done in bits don't notice the cost as much and i'll still have my steel cvh to sell and get a bit back to put to the zetec but thats just the way i went about it and you can still have a working car as you do it rather than it coming of the road for months and a lot of people lose hope doing it in one large/daunting task

[dave_s2_rst]

So with EFI, apart from the mechanical bits needed, am I right in saying the current loom gets swapped by an XR3i loom. The current ecu gets replaced with an OFAB? No more dizzy as its run off coil pack?

I intend to around or over 1 bar so will I require another chipped ECU?, what about this aftermarket management - what is this replacing? the ofab? if so, is this megasquirt the main choice?

Cheers

Apologies for the basic questions

[mercgrey]

cant use a 3i loom you need a loom to match the ecu, or use the guide on rsbible i think it is??

megasquirt is a good cheep ecu ofab is the one for higher boost out of ofab and ofac as you can put a 3 bar cossie map sensor on allowing up to 2 bar of boost

you will also reqire a efi tank and prob a better fuel pump

[botters]

i would go aftermarket as opposed to fiesta efi as its a poor system at best for the money you will be paying to convert

[Karlos G]

Also with aftermarket management there is no need to swap looms over, just cut back or tie back the old MFI loom that you dont need and use your shiny new loom that comes with your chosen management

[dave_s2_rst]

Hi Karlos,

Wouldn't I need to change the loom anyway if I was going to run efi?.

Didn't realise I needed a EFI tank


This Efi malark seems rather long!

cheers

[Rob_DOHC]

What?

You don't need an efi tank, the pump is external and you don't need an efi loom. With after market management such as megasquirt. You need an efi inlet manifold from a fiesta rst or xr3i (cvh) with fuel rail and wiring, a CPS sensor and essentially your away..... WB lambda is good, as is an ISCV etc but they are not essential.

If your getting cold feet now mate i would probably leave it as it is.....

[dave_s2_rst]

Lol, well I haven't started anything yet, but will be doing my homework before anything should start. We'll see how it goes for the moment whilst I get to know more about it. Regarding the loom, am I right in saying The current wires remain as they are with the efi wires , wired into the car?

If I intend to run 1bar or over, what should I be using?

Thanks

[XRT_si]

As with anything you can get stuff cheap enough if you look around.
My Zetec had a big valve/port head, forged pistons, steel rods, new pumps, custom inlet, tubular manifold, GT30, Omex 600 and it owes me less than £1900 for the lot.

[Rob_DOHC]

Right loom,

You can essentially treat the engine loom as being two separate units, one is for things like the alternator, starter motor, battery, lights etc. The other is for the engine, so sensors, ecu, ignition etc.

You (if using aftermarket management) keep the first loom (with lights and stuff) and make your own mini loom for your new ecu, which would have wires going to the EFI inlet (for injectors and most sensors), and wires for the cps and lambda.

Have a look though old posts using the search button, specifically ones with megasquirt in the title as you will learn a lot from these (even if you don't end up using megasquirt)

This is a bad photo of en efi inletm you can see it has the majority of sensors present a a nice connector for attaching to you new mini loom,



This is pulled from the megasquirt web site but gives a good idea of what inputs and outputs a vehicle ecu has, most aftermarket ecus (and factory ecus) will have simular or identical inputs and outputs.



This (at time of photo) was the most expensive table in the house lol but has some or most of the things on it you would need for a nice efi install



and a picture of what a megasquirt ecu looks like



Rob,

[dave_s2_rst]

Cheers Rob,

That has certainly helped! But be warned I may need to pick your brains again sometime soon!

Cheers

[dave_s2_rst]

Originally Posted by XRT_si

As with anything you can get stuff cheap enough if you look around.
My Zetec had a big valve/port head, forged pistons, steel rods, new pumps, custom inlet, tubular manifold, GT30, Omex 600 and it owes me less than £1900 for the lot.

That seems a fair price, was that the engine in your black mk2?

[XRT_si]

Originally Posted by dave_s2_rst

That seems a fair price, was that the engine in your black mk2?

No that was a much more basic spec and cost more

This is for the new Fiesta I've got.

Have you seen my old black one then?