16 cvh 300BHP

[Rob_DOHC]

No disrespect to Luke, but i was there recently with a friend and was disgusted with his partner, i think luke is the brains behind the act..... as he mapped another friends cosworth very well. Where as you can go somewhere else and no matter who touches you car you know they are more than cappable. Rob

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[mattyboyrst]

I personally would look at running a gt28rs and looking for 270 brake again on efi. You would have a far nicer car to live with.... instead of a peaky cock inlarging 300 brake
like the sound of that although the sound of a 300 bhp seems a good figure to

[morph]

Originally Posted by Rob_DOHC

No disrespect to Luke, but i was there recently with a friend and was disgusted with his partner

WHY'S THAT?

[d4 rst]

Originally Posted by d4 rst

my spec 16 cvh + 5mm oversize pistons 751 steel bottom end stage 4 head kent cvh 36 cam big valves gas flowed cts stage 2+ box gotech pro x management turbo??

i will get my car back this week i hope she makes 300bhp what do you think guys.

[d4 rst]

Originally Posted by d4 rst

MY SPEC 16 CVH + 5mm OVERSIZE PISTONS 751 STEEL BOTTOM END STAGE 4 HEAD KENT CVH 36 CAM BIG VALVES GAS FLOWED CTS STAGE 2+ BOX GOTECH PRO X MANAGEMENT TURBO??

WHAT DO YOU THINK CHRIS

[Rob_DOHC]

although the sound of a 300 bhp seems a good figure to

Lol 300 does sound good i will admit. But at the end of the day the guy who has the largest area under the curve will have the faster (generally) car. Ie) you build a car that comes on boost at 2000rpm and has 250brake, you build another that has 300 brake comes on boost at 4000rpm and has fuck all power before then.... Yes it will feel much faster but the less powerfull car will be quicker and more reliable on 9/10 roads and any track that doesn't have massive straights.

WHY'S THAT?

CAPS LOCK IS GAY

but, seriously i am really not into slating companies or people. Out of the 2 times i have met Luke he seemed like a really nice bloke, knew his stuff well and like i said did a cracking job on my mates cossy, was a bit hell bent on selling him wasted spark and Gotec (i think just because he had them in stock) and slated most other management systems other than Gotec lol

However, the bloke who ran the shop next door (his partner, and not sure if they still are because i believe enhanced have moved again) was a mellon. Took a friends car in there with a suspect fueling problem, whilst we were out having a fag he did a screaming power run on a cold engine and then started to take the car off...... I said "what was the fueling like then" he said "i don't know i didn't put the lambda in"

How are you supposed to know what its fueling like without a lambda, we explained when we arrived what the problem was. He did another run WITH lambda said every thing was fine (which it wasn't) and left it at that.

We got home, took the car to pieces and found that one of the air flaps (cologn 2.9 lump) was sized half open!!!!

Its the few that spoil things for the many, we were pissed off because the guy should have just said "i don't know what im doing" and were also pissed off becasue Luke had promised us he would personally be there which he wasn't.

If Luke was there, im confident (although i hardly know him) that he would have both diagnosed the fault and done the run with the bloody lambda in..... I mean seriously if i took my rst somewhere running shit lean and some one did that i would have major humour failure!

Rob,

[morph]

Originally Posted by Rob_DOHC

Lol 300 does sound good i will admit. But at the end of the day the guy who has the largest area under the curve will have the faster (generally) car. Ie) you build a car that comes on boost at 2000rpm and has 250brake, you build another that has 300 brake comes on boost at 4000rpm and has fuck all power before then.... Yes it will feel much faster but the less powerfull car will be quicker and more reliable on 9/10 roads and any track that doesn't have massive straights.



CAPS LOCK IS GAY

but, seriously i am really not into slating companies or people. Out of the 2 times i have met Luke he seemed like a really nice bloke, knew his stuff well and like i said did a cracking job on my mates cossy, was a bit hell bent on selling him wasted spark and Gotec (i think just because he had them in stock) and slated most other management systems other than Gotec lol

However, the bloke who ran the shop next door (his partner, and not sure if they still are because i believe enhanced have moved again) was a mellon. Took a friends car in there with a suspect fueling problem, whilst we were out having a fag he did a screaming power run on a cold engine and then started to take the car off...... I said "what was the fueling like then" he said "i don't know i didn't put the lambda in"

How are you supposed to know what its fueling like without a lambda, we explained when we arrived what the problem was. He did another run WITH lambda said every thing was fine (which it wasn't) and left it at that.

We got home, took the car to pieces and found that one of the air flaps (cologn 2.9 lump) was sized half open!!!!

Its the few that spoil things for the many, we were pissed off because the guy should have just said "i don't know what im doing" and were also pissed off becasue Luke had promised us he would personally be there which he wasn't.

If Luke was there, im confident (although i hardly know him) that he would have both diagnosed the fault and done the run with the bloody lambda in..... I mean seriously if i took my rst somewhere running shit lean and some one did that i would have major humour failure!

Rob,

Not sure who this person that run it on the dyno like that is???
Luke has moved to where he used to be before - abc motorsport premises.
Man that sounds really bad who ever that was!
when was you up there as you must of seen my car there if it was at the old premises?
as mine was there for pretty much most of the summer and then september october time!

[Rob_DOHC]

no sorry mate, can't remember seeing any cars there it was before i got an rst so i was a bit shutter eyes with cosworth etc.....

All i know is its the guy he ran enhanced with....?

[nigel b]

Originally Posted by morph

Mark shead produced 260bhp many times from his setups on mfi and were rolling road proven plus he has produce 280bhp from mfi, so its not impossible.

your nearly right
marks own car was 235 on mfi
mark aris was 250 on mfi
kirstan taylor was 286 on mfi
the cars were alot newer than they are now
this was like 6-10 years ago

[morph]

Originally Posted by nigel b

your nearly right
marks own car was 235 on mfi
mark aris was 250 on mfi
kirstan taylor was 286 on mfi
the cars were alot newer than they are now
this was like 6-10 years ago

if its mark's black rs turbo that was shown to make 256bhp along with the s1 turbo which made 258bhp i remember reading the article in the Perfomance Ford or Fast ford mag back then, i think it was a front cover feature aswell.

either way he was able to get some monster power out of mfi back then, ok the cars were newer but it is possible.

[Tim]

if the cars had that much power back then why did they do such shit times etc?

[morph]

Originally Posted by Tim

if the cars had that much power back then why did they do such shit times etc?

no r888's or similars at resonable prices back then, no quaife atb, no mtx gearboxs back then, no one had adjustable tca's or they were rare.
Not everyone was into recorded times, even now its a few that want to show records.
mark's s2 and s1 were very quick back then.

[nigel b]

marks own car was only 235 bhp
this was soo long ago nobody was into qtr/top speed runs

[d4 rst]

Long live the rst.

[Christian and Beccy]

I believe VERY FEW of these quoted power figures. How were they measured? I'll tell you, on 30 year old Dyno's. It's all wank.

I for one am sick of all this pointless drivel about power figures and the whole world thinking they can have 300bhp and 400bhp, ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN EASILY.

Sorry, but 270bhp on MFi, it's just not going to happen. I'll say my usual thing, bring it to APT, we'll Dyno it. I bet it makes AT LEAST 50bhp less than the claimed figure. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it before. Claimed 240bhp RST's barely making 140bhp!!

Wake up people and stop all this bullshit.

[/rantover]

[JamboRST]

Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy

I believe VERY FEW of these quoted power figures. How were they measured? I'll tell you, on 30 year old Dyno's. It's all wank.

I for one am sick of all this pointless drivel about power figures and the whole world thinking they can have 300bhp and 400bhp, ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN EASILY.

Sorry, but 270bhp on MFi, it's just not going to happen. I'll say my usual thing, bring it to APT, we'll Dyno it. I bet it makes AT LEAST 50bhp less than the claimed figure. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it before. Claimed 240bhp RST's barely making 140bhp!!

Wake up people and stop all this bullshit.

[/rantover]

not strictly true,ive seen 275@wheels on mfi,with my own eyes on the green shed,used to make consistant 270 runs

i will say that most power figs thrown about on here are far fetched and 99 times out 100 there bullshit.

[RSTAaron]

Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy

Sorry, but 270bhp on MFi, it's just not going to happen. I'll say my usual thing, bring it to APT, we'll Dyno it. I bet it makes AT LEAST 50bhp less than the claimed figure. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it before. Claimed 240bhp RST's barely making 140bhp!!


[/rantover]

I'm hoping to get my standard Rs Turbo down yours soon mate, I'd be quite happy with 140bhp!!! lol

[morph]

Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy

I'll say my usual thing, bring it to APT, we'll Dyno it. I bet it makes AT LEAST 50bhp less than the claimed figure.

So would you say that if an rs turbo was dyno'd on another dyno dynamics roller that is reading accurate bhp? or is it just apt's rollers? nd how have the apt rollers been calibrated against to see it's accuracy? could it be possible that its underestimating the figures?

[Christian and Beccy]

Originally Posted by morph

So would you say that if an rs turbo was dyno'd on another dyno dynamics roller that is reading accurate bhp? or is it just apt's rollers? nd how have the apt rollers been calibrated against to see it's accuracy? could it be possible that its underestimating the figures?

Morph, if APT's rollers underestimate the figures, then we've seen a 400bhp 1600CVH RST already. Mine CONSISTENTLY made between 335bhp and 351bhp each time it had a full-boost fully mapped power run using Dyno Dynamics Shootout mode, which by definition should be done within certain guidelines.

Thats not to say that every DD operator follows those guidelines, well, not the important ones anyway. As I said earlier, I have seen enough dyno runs from my RST and countless other RST's to have enough data upon which to base my opinions. I've had kicks in the bollocks myself when I found on various occassions that mine wasn't making the power, but it just made me work towards getting it right and this was eventually proven in the times. The last thing I wanted is to sound like I have my dick up my own arse, but I for one am getting really sick of all this bhp talk. It's dreaming. I still don't believe ANY MFi RST has made over 250bhp, unless it has been VERY seriously fettled, which may well include the green shed, not that I'd bet my life on those figures either, they were years ago. Sorry boys.

Not many of you have been on the scene long enough to remember when I came onto the RSOC waving my 220 at the wheels power figure around, only to get shot down by the likes of Rick etc. However, it had made this figure on Harveys dyno, so I was convinced. It wasn't until I ran it on a modern SUN dyno that I found to to be barely 190bhp AT THE ENGINE. As I said before, this isn't a dig at Harvey, more a dig at bullshit dyno figures. Harvey admitted then that his chassis dyno was barely used and wasn't reliable in terms of figures (not sure that he still has the same one!).

M K (Mark) will tell you about the day he turned up at one of our dyno days really believing that his car was >300bhp, when in fact it made about 220bhp. I felt for him, but like me, it gave him the determination to find the problem. It was always going to feel quick, a proper 220bhp RST is quick (let alone a 220bhp Mk1 Fiesta), of that there is no doubt, but it's not 300bhp. If Mark's was indeed 300bhp, when we made it 220bhp, then mine would have been well over 400bhp as it actually made about 330bhp (from memory) on the same day.

So, show me some proper +300bhp graphs. Thats what I'm interested in.

[d4 rst]

Hi christian and beccy what do you think of my spec what power do you think i can get cheers?

[d4 rst]

Originally Posted by d4 rst

my spec 16 cvh + 5mm oversize pistons 751 steel bottom end stage 4 head kent cvh 36 cam big valves gas flowed cts stage 2+ box gotech pro x management turbo??

this is my spec cheers?

[Christian and Beccy]

What is a Stage 4 head? What EXACTLY has been done? The Kent CVH36 is a fantastic cam for about 50 miles (until it runs the lobes off). What turbo are you planning to use? What is a 751 steel bottom end?

[creator]

i presume he means 7.5:1 cr???

[Christian and Beccy]

Originally Posted by creator

i presume he means 7.5:1 cr???

Ah OK.

[morph]

Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy

Morph, if APT's rollers underestimate the figures, then we've seen a 400bhp 1600CVH RST already. Mine CONSISTENTLY made between 335bhp and 351bhp each time it had a full-boost fully mapped power run using Dyno Dynamics Shootout mode, which by definition should be done within certain guidelines.

Thats not to say that every DD operator follows those guidelines, well, not the important ones anyway. As I said earlier, I have seen enough dyno runs from my RST and countless other RST's to have enough data upon which to base my opinions. I've had kicks in the bollocks myself when I found on various occassions that mine wasn't making the power, but it just made me work towards getting it right and this was eventually proven in the times. The last thing I wanted is to sound like I have my dick up my own arse, but I for one am getting really sick of all this bhp talk. It's dreaming. I still don't believe ANY MFi RST has made over 250bhp, unless it has been VERY seriously fettled, which may well include the green shed, not that I'd bet my life on those figures either, they were years ago. Sorry boys.

Not many of you have been on the scene long enough to remember when I came onto the RSOC waving my 220 at the wheels power figure around, only to get shot down by the likes of Rick etc. However, it had made this figure on Harveys dyno, so I was convinced. It wasn't until I ran it on a modern SUN dyno that I found to to be barely 190bhp AT THE ENGINE. As I said before, this isn't a dig at Harvey, more a dig at bullshit dyno figures. Harvey admitted then that his chassis dyno was barely used and wasn't reliable in terms of figures (not sure that he still has the same one!).


So, show me some proper +300bhp graphs. Thats what I'm interested in.

So if i take mine to TOTD dyno dynamics rollers and get a dyno graph as thats the nearest to me, what ever the result is, should i take that as a trueish figure or is it only APT's rollers that will show that? Wont factors like air temp, charge temps, bar pressures all on that day i get it rolled be different to any other day even if it was the same dyno.
My focus RS made 243 bhp on PE dynos in feb, however with additional mods like manifold, de-cat, induction kit which should have given 270bhp i only got 245bhp the difference was the weather, it was 22degrees outside in july, so weather plays a massive part on dyno figures not just the calibration of the rollers.
and yes if the rollers were underestimating i do realize that yours would have been 400 thats why i asked the question!

[Chip]

Originally Posted by JamboRST

not strictly true,ive seen 275@wheels on mfi,with my own eyes on the green shed

275@wheels on MFI?

Was the dyno operator a fellow called jayson?

[Chip]

Originally Posted by morph

So if i take mine to TOTD dyno dynamics rollers and get a dyno graph as thats the nearest to me, what ever the result is, should i take that as a trueish figure or is it only APT's rollers that will show that? Wont factors like air temp, charge temps, bar pressures all on that day i get it rolled be different to any other day even if it was the same dyno.
My focus RS made 243 bhp on PE dynos in feb, however with additional mods like manifold, de-cat, induction kit which should have given 270bhp i only got 245bhp the difference was the weather, it was 22degrees outside in july, so weather plays a massive part on dyno figures not just the calibration of the rollers.
and yes if the rollers were underestimating i do realize that yours would have been 400 thats why i asked the question!

Dyno dynamics rollers like ATP and TOTB do a pretty reasonable job of allowing for different temperatures, they give you a DIN corrected figure at the end which should be fairly consistant even if run in different temperatures (up to a point)

[morph]

Originally Posted by Chip

Dyno dynamics rollers like ATP and TOTB do a pretty reasonable job of allowing for different temperatures, they give you a DIN corrected figure at the end which should be fairly consistant even if run in different temperatures (up to a point)

i'll will be poping down that way shortly so will get a figure for my car as i would like to see how much difference it is compared to Lukes dyno. What do you think of Luke's dyno?

[Chip]

I dont know anything about Luke's dyno, never run a car up on it.

[morph]

Originally Posted by Chip

I dont know anything about Luke's dyno, never run a car up on it.

i think they used to be jamsport 2nd dyno that was going to be used in the outbuilding that jamsport was building.

[JamboRST]

Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy

Morph, if APT's rollers underestimate the figures, then we've seen a 400bhp 1600CVH RST already. Mine CONSISTENTLY made between 335bhp and 351bhp each time it had a full-boost fully mapped power run using Dyno Dynamics Shootout mode, which by definition should be done within certain guidelines.

Thats not to say that every DD operator follows those guidelines, well, not the important ones anyway. As I said earlier, I have seen enough dyno runs from my RST and countless other RST's to have enough data upon which to base my opinions. I've had kicks in the bollocks myself when I found on various occassions that mine wasn't making the power, but it just made me work towards getting it right and this was eventually proven in the times. The last thing I wanted is to sound like I have my dick up my own arse, but I for one am getting really sick of all this bhp talk. It's dreaming. I still don't believe ANY MFi RST has made over 250bhp, unless it has been VERY seriously fettled, which may well include the green shed, not that I'd bet my life on those figures either, they were years ago. Sorry boys.
.

what has time got to do with it?in 5 year can we say all power figs today are BS because it was years ago
ive seen enough of AVA to know that there power figs are spot on,i practically lived there at one point lol.theres never been an issue with any figs produced at AVA in all the years ive been on the scene,std cars make what alan would reckon to be std wheel power.
alans a very knowledgable man and knows how to get proper power from cars with a useable powerband.he's been operating his rollers for as long as i remember and as a newbie your not giving him much respect.the green shed was seriously fettled and alan admits he would never do it again.i seen the green shed do the numbers up here and would bet my left testicle and half of my right one it would do the numbers at APT or any DD rollers in the country

[JamboRST]

Originally Posted by Chip

275@wheels on MFI?

Was the dyno operator a fellow called jayson?

his name was alan,does that make a difference??

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy

Morph, if APT's rollers underestimate the figures, then we've seen a 400bhp 1600CVH RST already. Mine CONSISTENTLY made between 335bhp and 351bhp each time it had a full-boost fully mapped power run using Dyno Dynamics Shootout mode, which by definition should be done within certain guidelines.

IT probe being a big one, I really struggle with where the hell to put it when doing my nova.

If I put it right by the filter, it sees 60 degrees plus, which blatantly will over read, if I leave it on the wall, it sees atmoshperic but that doesnt really represent the airflow going into the engine as the fans dont give me any airflow as its mid mounted, so best option I could come up with was put it just outside the rear side window, so its kind of effected by the engine bay temps but not too much, to try and accurately represent an average figure for the air the engine is actually seeing, obviously when move along in the real world I dont have these problems as I have loads of airflow under the car and in through the rear windows etc.

Mine is an unusually awkward one though!

[Chip]

Originally Posted by JamboRST

his name was alan,does that make a difference??

Sorry mate, that was a bit of a private joke really.

[d4 rst]

How good is a cvh 36 cam? Have you got one or have you had one?

[Christian and Beccy]

Originally Posted by d4 rst

How good is a cvh 36 cam? Have you got one or have you had one?

I said above, its a good profile, but Kent cams, for the CVH at least, are shit and won't last.

[d4 rst]

Standard inlet or custom inlet

[d4 rst]

What is best cam for cvh?

[d4 rst]

STAGE 4 HEAD has Kent cvh 36, double valve(isky) springs, motosport solid lifters, fully gas flowed, ported and polished, bigger valves, bronze guides AND its a cross hatch hemi head.
TURBO SPEC unsure at moment but is able to produce upto 400bhp.
751 = 7.5:1 comp ratio
wossner pistons
H section steel rods
standard crank lightened and balanced
.5mm bored oversize
arp bolt set
heavy duty bearings
charge cooler setup
siemens injectors rated upto 400bhp
cossie fuel pump uprated
cossie fuel rail
cossie throttle body
Gotech mfi pro X
anti-lag
stage 2+ box with 3.5 final drive
coil pack
new ancilaries allround

[Rob_DOHC]

Don't use your antilag.

Who ported your head and what size valves are installed.... its no good just quoting your spec. A really good engine with that spec could potentially make 300 brake, a shoddily put together engine with bad tolerances, and a bad 'porting' job etc will struggle to make 250 brake The biggest most expensive off the shelf parts are not always the best.... I think at high boost most people will struggle with breathing anyway (manifold).

Rob,