mentalasanything

I'm not too sure, but from recollection you do need it

mentalasanything

It's been a while! Good news is the car has an MOT! Bad news is she's stupidly lean (0.15% CO according to the MOT printout). I had set the base idle and CO using the tacho function on my multimeter and a Gunson Gastester. I think the gunson must be under-reading even though I set it up and calibrated it. Either that or the instructions are wrong and you add the 1.5% required on top of the 2% atmospheric CO level. Hey ho, she's booked in for a set-up on May 3rd ready for some summer driving!

Lee

adamrs89

my mk4 escort has a 1.816v zetec in and im wanting to put my rs engine in but run efi will my zetec mk4 be already wired for efi?

MARKYMARKONE

iTrader: (2)

Hi

Ive built and installed a 2.1zvh into my brothers s2 turbo.
Ive used the fiesta turbo loom and ecu, wired it as per the instructions on page 1. The only problem is i cant get a spark or any fuel to the engine.
Ive checked all connections and that ive got power to coil pack, cps etc but still it wont go.

Can anyone give me any pointers

Cheers
Mark

beaver rs 88

Do you join the oil pressure switch wire up to the old one (mfi) to keep the dash light working or can I just leave the efi one disconnected and leave the original wire in place?

steve.rst

im hopefully fitting my engine to my rs turbo in a few weeks. then i want to convert to efi. this post looks very useful. is there anyway i can save this post so i can view it in a few weeks time when im doing the conversion

155lee

iTrader: (10)

sorry if i missed the answers to my questions but i have not read the thread from start to finish.
im building an efi mk4 cabby.
i have a full mk4 escort efi cabby to break for its loom as it has all the options i want.

1,can i use the whole engine if i fit turbo pistons to the bottom end?
2,is there no difference between the xr3i efi inlet and the frst inlet?
3,where does the map sensor go,or is there already a map sensor on the inlet that needs changed to suit my ecu
4,i have both ofac and ofab ecus,which is easiest to convert to?
5,would it be more simple if i bought a frst wiring loom,would that plug staraight into the car loom and work straight away?
6,what sort of power figure can be had from the efi engine,is 195 quite easily achieved with cam,intercooler,exhaust,injectors and chip?
thanks very much for any replies,any help is greatly appreciated,also thanks to the op for creating this how to thread.
lee

mentalasanything

1. No, you can use the head though.
2. No-ish! The inlet itself is identical. The Air Charge temp sensors are different. FRST ACT sensor has an adapter to fit the hole and different wiring plug for the ACT.
3. MAP sensor is off board, you will need an FRST one to match your ECU
4. Much of a muchness, I'd go for OFAB if you want higher than 1 bar boost. If not, go OFAC and sell the OFAB
5. If you have the '3i loom and decide on OFAC, it's easier to use the '3i loom. If you want to go OFAB it's probably quicker to use the FRST loom. Having said that, it's not difficult to convert a '3i loom for OFAB.
6. Don't chase numbers. You will want to look at a slightly bigger turbo than an ERST T3 for that figure, say a Cossie 4x4 T3 (or equivalent stage trim). I held back on the boost, I only run 10PSi by choice. I have a similar spec but I run a standard cam. I drove in, the car was only holding 6PSI boost. On the first run made 134 BHP. After a few tweaks and 10PSI it made 162 BHP. It's enough for me and it'll light up the wheels in 2nd and 3rd.

Lee

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Guys, slowly picking up parts. Il post some pics tomorrow as I don't know what I'm missing. However I have a lead on an xr3i cab with loom
And ecu. I was told the car and ecu loom is all one piece. Firstly will this loom work and secondaly if it does do I split the car loom way from the Ecu or just fit the entire loom into my Rs?

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Picked up some bits for the efi conversion (took pics below) but still think I need the rest on the list below and I have some stupid ass questions too! Thanks guys



2) Throttle position sensor, Idle speed control valve and injector wiring loom - wil this be part of the main loom or is it seperate?
3) XR3i EFi loom - using the entire loom from a cab?
4) EDIS-4 unit, Crank Position Sensor and Coilpack).
5) Suitable HT Leads - can Rs turbo mfi ones be used??
6) 36-1 tooth trigger wheel on the crank with Crank Position Sensor bracket (Oddkid creations have been mentioned).
7) MAP sensor
8) CO2 Potentiometer. What does this normally look like?
9) Vehicle Speed sensor- anyone have a pic of this? Where do it sit normally?
11) Engine sensors for the ECU type chosen. - I don't understand this. What sensors? Can the mfi ones not be used?
12) XR2i or XR3i EFI throttle pedal and throttle cable. The conversion has to be done then?
13) What is needed to keep the mfi valve cover and charge pipe?

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Anyone?

mentalasanything

OK:

2) The black part in the pic of the injectors is the throttle sensor. You have an XR3i EFi inlet so you will need the external type XR3i EFi Idle Speed Control Valve. Injector wiring loom is usually bolted to the inlet so will probably be seperate to the car loom.
3) Fine
5) You'll need EFi ones, the clips to the Coil are different to those on the MFi Dizzy
8)Like this:

9) Screwed into the speedo drive on the gearbox. has a cable tail hanging:

11) No, they are diferent to MFi, You will need Air charge temp sensor from a fiesta RST, a Coolant temp sensor from any EEC-IV EFi car, a suitable Crank Position Sensor, engine temperature sensor (not unique to EFi) and as you mentioned, a CO pot and MAP sensor (To suit your OFAB or OFAC).
12) Has to be done unless you can convert the throttle body to take an MFI cable.
13) Brute force really, the TB on the EFi inlet has a larger inlet than the MFi one. That or get a reducer silicone hose.

Mad4RSTurbos

Currently have all the correct mechanical items, engine built with efi block / electrically I have the ofab ecu (fiesta Rst) and engine / injector loom (xr2i) 3bar map, idle control valve...ect. I currently have an Mfi turbo mk 4 cabriolet with the two external ecu's. Fuel and main. Can anyone let me know if that's all I need before I start. I'm struggling to identify this loom currently fitted to the car so I can start with the brilliantly explained guide/info!! Or can I only use an efi xr3i loom or fiesta Rst loom!?? Any help advice will be appreciated!!

Mad4RSTurbos

Well I bought a fully working EFI cabriolet loom today and will use that and have the in car ecu set up . Just so you all know . Also my car started of life as one if them turbo technics xr3i editions. So I'm unsure what I have and don't have wiring wise as someone been there playing at some point! I'll keep you informed on my progress. That's if anyone is interested haha! This is a really old thread I noticed.

mentalasanything

I'm always interested, this is one of the only threads I bother reading these days!

Just make sure you check the pins on the loom as per the first post and you'll be laughing. And test the CO pot with the car on a gas analyser...

Lee

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

I bite the bullet and bought a full engine on ofac loom. Was aleaty in an erst project car being rebuilt. Should be a drop on job

Mad4RSTurbos

Hey Lee are you about mate??

Finished fitting my full 3i efi loom to the car everything works first time! Lights, ignition, doors windows ect...... I do not have the ecu pin changes done yet for the ofab ecu from 3i efi loom that's I'm doing tomorro-sat. I have came across one issue so far the ignition and I get no battery lights ect? If I switch the lights on they light up fine as do turn signals, fuel gauge and temp work too mechanically. Is this because I have yet to add my ecu to the wiring plug?? also have no fuel pump working but that's due to not making the relay wiring as stated at the start of the tread but also I guess this may be a cause to for the battery light?? Buzzing though got loads done tonight and can't wait to fit the engine!

mentalasanything

Hello mate,

You got it in one, the "fuel injection relay" from the diagram triggers the ignition live for everything. Nothing requiring an ignition live will work without it.

Lee

Mad4RSTurbos

It must be the brill diagram and explanation. Thought that was the case. I also am planning a 500 mile run in period with the rebuilt engine so will be running standard (blue) injectors/ no chip/ standard boost. I am worried about the 3 bar cossie map sensor part!!! I've heard some people say it won't run with that connected!?!?!? I find this hard to believe Lee but have you come across this mate?? Appreciate your advice thanks.

mentalasanything

It will run. However (someone may be able to correct me on this) it won't interpret the signal from the MAP sensor. If I've understood it right, the voltage output of a 3 BAR MAP sensor at 3 BAR is the same as a 2 BAR MAP sensor at 2 BAR. So the voltage output of each MAP sensor at 2 BAR is diferent (see where I'm going...) the ECU will as a result not fuel correctly and won't set the ignition correctly.

Long and short: if you have the 3 BAR MAP you must run the appropriate chip.

Lee

Mad4RSTurbos

Great explanation lee!!! 100%.
Well in that case then what map sensor should I be using with standard boost/injectors. The engine is full blown forged ect with cam/ big front mount stage 3 hybrid. But need to run in properly!!! Unsure where I stand now map sensor wise! Cheers mate.

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Just to update I bought a full engine, gearbox and loom on ofac. I'm missing the map so il have to keep an eye out for a 195. Apparently it has beiges fitted. In terms of turbo will my t3 do or should I change it? Apparently it was fitted with a cossie turbo?

mentalasanything

Why don't you run the full setup: Chip, beiges and a 3 bar MAP but keep the boost to 8PSI? It'll still be fine.

Edited my post too as its voltage not frequency, lol!

Lee

mentalasanything

Do you have it? Obviously a quick glance will tell you which injectors it has. The ERST T3 will be good for up to a bar, it just won't flow as well as a Cossie T3. Depends how much cash you have, may be worth just keeping the T3 for now.

Lee

Mad4RSTurbos

Hey lee I worked out you ment voltage . Well I did consider it (beige and chip) but was going to do that after run in period but yeah I guess I can run low boost with them fitted! Will solve the map issue. I better go order a chip then for my new specs then!! I'll no doubt be updating you during next week if I have an issue appreciate your help Lee!!

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Pulled it out of an Rs turbo, stuck it into my van and it's still there. Gonna have a proper look at it on Monday. There was a cossie t3 strapped to it but he wanted too much for it.

mentalasanything

Yeah, OFAB uses a voltage type MAP sensor where OFAC uses the frequency type.

If I were starting afresh using OFAB or OFAC I'd go for an MSD chip.

Lee

Mad4RSTurbos

My thoughts exactly, deffo need one to suit my spec and been looking at the Evo chips they do!! a second hand one does not really appeal to me after all I have spent can't skimp now lol!!! Bought brand new beiges for Ł300 so just the chip and a clutch to get now! A phone call to MSD to discuss requirements is next up Lee thanks

mentalasanything

If you're going to town on it, would you entertain an OFAM ECU? Sounds like it would be beneficial and not much more than the cost of an MSD chip...

Lee

Mad4RSTurbos

In all honesty Lee my original plan was the boost monkeys OFAM unit. I did discuss it and wanted to do it all then get it mapped with them. But i found it very hard to contact them and discuss my requirements as they must I been so busy at the time.
So that kind of put me off a bit so decided the ofab route. I would be very interested in the OFAM as I also read a lot about the gen8 unit they do too! Going to town indeed Lee no expense spared botoom end cost about Ł2500-Ł2800 alone

Mad4RSTurbos

Lee you got me all excited!! Have you got an OFAM for sale or something?

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Resto is still ongoing. Suspension is all renewed on one side and have new brake line setup almost done. Next thing is the fuel tank . The shell still has the bonus tank. I have my Rs turbo lines and tank but I'm not sure if I need to run these or not. I'm going for an ofac set up engine and loom drop in. Going to run the fuel filter and accumulator like lee has in his pic! Got a fuel pressure gauge but need to get an adopter union

mentalasanything

It really is up to you. OFAC on beiges will need 3.5BAR at idle. This is the benefit of keeping/using the ERST pump and tank, MFi runs at more than that so its more than up for the job.

If it were me and I had the parts there, I'd fit them: tank, pump, supply & return lines. accumulator and filter. I run the old XR3i MFi parts in mine and they're fine. You do have the option of running something else aftermarket like a Facet.

Lee

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Nice one, I refurbed my Rs turbo lines and tank last year do il swap over

tejy

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys so I've been following this thread for a while and currently in the process of converting to EFI. Currently I have removed the mfi loom, seperated all lighting, starter motor, ternator horn basically all auxillary items. Took a while but was fairly straightforward. Also removed the pink fuel pump relay and the green abs relay. As it stands I'm almost ready to add the ofab loom. I have extended 7 wires to the ofab loom and just need to mate them with the existing mfi loom but I have a few questions that need a little help on. If anyone can help me out, that would be great!

Following this diagram to mate the ofab loom to the mfi loom

1) - what colour wire below is the ignition switch? ive highlighted it in red. Also Below is the ignition barrel. I know that the yellow wire is for the radio, as I have followed the wire to the stereo loom; can someone clarify which colour wire is used to merge with the 1st wire from the engine loom multi plug (which I highlighted in red)??



31804[/ATTACH]

2) - Does the rev counter wire literally merge with the edis wire 11, pictured below? Its the blue and yellow wire. Or do I run it from wire 3 highlighted in light blue in the first diagram above straight to the rev counter?? Also what colour wire is the rev counter? I have mfi late spec clocks, the connectors are below





3) - Is the connector below now obsolete as it is one of the connections for the mfi inlet? Can I completely remove this item?



4) - I have been trying to figure out what to do with the oil pressure switch. I know where it is located - on the back of the block, the turbo braided oil feed runs into it. My question is do I run the oil pressure switch as a brand new wire out of the 7 wires from the new loom that I am making as shown in the first diagram (its highlighted in lime green)? I only ask this as I have an oil pressure switch on the MFI loom AND another oil pressure switch on the OFAB loom. Am I correct in saying that these wires are obsolete and can I cut the connector off the MFI loom and re use it with the fresh wiring I have installed??

5) - Where is the best place to wire the fuel injection relay and the fuel pump relay? I was thinking under the dash where the old pink fuel pump relay goes?

6) - I will be using my existing MFI head, I have a MFI - EFI sandwich plate. Should I use a gasket inbetween each layer .. for example:

Cylinder head --> gasket --> sandwich plate --> gasket --> inlet


If you can answer any of these questions it would be a great help to me!

Thanks guys.

mentalasanything

I'm going to have a go at this! Here goes:

Black off the ignition barrel is switched ignition live.

The EDIS wire you have circled is pin1. Pin 11 sits between the two green wires on the left. This will 99% likely not work. You need the following circuit:



With "-ve coil 1" going to pin 10 of the EDIS module and "-ve coil 2" going to pin 12 (bearing in mind pin 11 is the missing pin and pin 1 is the blue wire circled). "To Tach" goes to the green wire on the blue connector. Wire direct don't just splice it in line.

That looks like coolant temp sensor? If so there's one on the back of the EFi inlet so disregard it.

Ok, you can ignore that cable if you've left it in your car loom.

I'd agree, in the past I've recycled holders off old looms so they clip to the mounting plate.

Yes you should.

Lee

tejy

iTrader: (1)

Thank you so much for clearing that up for me mentalasanything! This thread deserves to be a sticky as whoever is still running mfi in 2015 needs to get with the times I would also like to give a massive thank you to Rob_DOHC & blackbeautyzetec for the advise they've been giving me. This has been a huge learning curve for me.

I have just ordered the diodes. What's the easiest method of installing them with the new loom? On a small circuit board?

Also I forgot to ask as I got distracted when posting earlier, where does everyone mount their ecu's? Behind the heater matrix where the mfi ecus are? I read somewhere that they're not sealed very well.. Is there any truth to this?

Is relocating an ecu for example to the glove box just a case of extending the wires and the ecu inside the car behind the dash? Could it affect performance?

It was satisfying to rip out the old mfi loom.. Oh and I did it with precision . I found a few wires that had been through 25 years of suffering (brakes in the wiring) which I know for a fact is one of the reasons I had electrical issues with my car.

Been restoring my loom at my own pace, I don't plan on rushing it; double, triple checking things always does help. It has been more challenging than I expected but it really has opened my eyes to understand electrics. Planning on using some decent braided sleeving once it's all ready after initial testing. Have brought a bunch of fresh grounding circles and some new headlight H4 connectors, will be replacing them too as mine have disintegrated. My aim is to make the electrics on point so the car has the correct grounding and there's no shoddy soldering .. Which I found plenty of .. I'm sure theres many more rs turbos with shoddy wiring that needs to be corrected!

In a way starting on mfi and evolving to efi really does help one understand how the electrics of any car are equally as important as the rest moving components of the car. I think the problem with conversions is some people who have had a go at home diy electrics fitting alarms or just doing a bodge job from 1997 to fix whatever the issue may have been don't realise how a bad soldering or temporary bodge can really effect the car's running in a massive way.

It would be a difficult task for someone who has never used a soldering iron before, but for those who can understand simple electrics with a little time and patience it does all start to add up once you get to grips with the whole complexity of the wiring. I also understand why it has been advised by some not to use 20 year old wiring.. Time does take its toll on the wires!

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like your getting on well. This is one of the most important parts of the efi conversion, if you cut corners with the loom you will for ever be fixing failures and chasing faults.

Some simple rules which will help:
Strain relief every thing, a taught or tight wire will fail. Use P clips, cable ties and heat shrink to secure wires and avoid cable flex at a joint.

This is especially true if you are soldering connections rather than crimping them as a solder joint will fail much more quickly with out suitable strain relief.

Noisy wires (injectors, 12V, ignition coil wires) should be kept as far away as possible from 'quiet' wires (CLT, MAP, MAT, CPS, EDIS SAW/PIP) to avoid coupling noise into wires unnecessarily.

Earth, earth and earth. The ecu ground switches everything and references all sensor voltages to ground. A bad ground will make your head hurt. Google what a STAR ground is and try to follow it.

Ultimately this means that you pick a SINGLE ground point where all grounds meet. For me this is usually the engine block. Run a big thick wire from the battery to the block, then a wire from the chassis to the block, EDIS to block, ECU to block. All important grounds go to the same location on the block. This is very important and if you think about it Ford mostly do this by default on the escort (not true for the MK2 fiesta!). Don't go mad, you radio grounding isn't important, using this method you should have one maybe two cables going to the negative term of the battery.

And lastly, make a wiring diagram as you go along, keep track of the colours that you have used and precisely what they do. This will help you enormously when you mess up and need to find out where and why


The diodes don't need to be soldered on a PCB, join them exactly as the image above by soldering their leads to wires then heat shrink over the lot. In my experience, depending on what diodes are used you might have to add a couple of resistors but try first.

100% inside the car,I personally would install the ecu where ford mounts the EEC-IV in the XR3i's ie, behind the gearstick. You can probably buy the OEM ecu mount etc. Or on top of the glove box. I would just drill a suitable hole in the bulk head behind the battery some where and use a decent sealing grommet to seal. This way yo can keep the car loom (head lights etc) and ECU loom totally separate which helps with routing.

If you fuck it up then yes it will effect performance , but not as much as driving in the rain on the motorway and filling your ecu up with water. Further if you are genuinely considering an OFAM in the future we do not give a warranty to people who install in the engine bay rather than the cabin as the ford ecu case is in no way sealed.

See colours in your quoted message.


Good luck.

simonmcf

iTrader: (1)

Little update, the new to me but old loom got installed the other day. I have no idea what it's form but I'm guessing it's an Orion as there was four door looms.

Everything in the cabin fitted in, eg elec heater, switches etc. I was left with one yellow connector near the clocks. No idea what it's for!

The only major difference I see that I need to overcome is the fuel pump loom. I want to keep my external pump- how can I do this as the fittings are different for the in tank pump.

Cheers

mentalasanything

I removed the fuel pump loom from my MFi loom and ran it from the fuel pump relay to the mfi pump. In practice, I did it by leaving that loom in place, the thick black/red wire can be carefully removed from the pink holder. Just take that crimp terminal that's already on the wire and fit it to the efi relay holder.

Lee