Tuning a small turbo cossie
#1
15000
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kilwinning
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tuning a small turbo cossie
hi all
Im looking to buy a small turbo cossie but would love to know the tuning potential (i.e stage 1=260-270 stage 2=300-310) i'm looking for about 330-340 bhp. also what's the reliability on one with this sort of power ( i understand any car or engine can let go at anytime without warning ) so mainly chutch, gearbox etc.
Im looking to buy a small turbo cossie but would love to know the tuning potential (i.e stage 1=260-270 stage 2=300-310) i'm looking for about 330-340 bhp. also what's the reliability on one with this sort of power ( i understand any car or engine can let go at anytime without warning ) so mainly chutch, gearbox etc.
#2
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If your looking for 330-340 bhp from a small turbo you'd need deep pockets and have to get a big turbo conversion on it, the small turbo struggles with anything over 300 bhp unless you chuck alot of money into it.
Your best bet would be to get a big turbo to start with .....
Your best bet would be to get a big turbo to start with .....
#3
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: essex
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#4
15000
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kilwinning
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks that link helped lots cheers again . so it looks like 300 bhp is what i'm looking for then and i take it that filter, exhaust ,fuel pump and chip with take me there
#7
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cos jon
I don't think many of the 305bhp conversions actually make that anyway, maybe nearer 280bhp....
Trending Topics
#9
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by whitevanman
so what you got to get 301 and is it loads better than standard .
plus what you getting out of a tank of petrol
cheers
plus what you getting out of a tank of petrol
cheers
Not sure on how many miles to a tank, but worked it out at about 28-29 mpg a while back which i was very suprised with, although i dont really drive it hard at all.
#13
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#15
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: essex
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are loads, but the fact is you do not need a huge turbo, as you cannot flow enough fuel to keep up with the ammount of air you can pass through boost.
Mine is 303bhp @21psi (1.5bar). The turbo I am running is basically a standard housing, with Nissan Sunny GTi-R internals and a 360 bearing etc etc. Actuator is same. This has done 40,000 miles on the car in it's current form.
With a Magnex system (de-cat) or any other, Mongoose, Scorpion etc, you will be able to creep up the BHP ladder. I have a cone filter (stainless Blitz one), all the Samco hoses, and I got a chip made for my spec, but with no Boost limiter, or Rev limiter built into it, so I can set it up and drive it how I fell it needs.
At this stage the power was 287bhp and 303lbft, which was very good and nice to drive. This stage of tune was when I went head to head with the stage 3 big turbo one in Performance Ford.
The recorded performance at this time, were as follows;
0-60 4.9secs
1/4 mile 13.5secs
161 mph max speed
The car had the same lag as from new (i.e. very little) and was beautiful to drive, and thrash at the same time.
After this level I got some cams fitted- BD10 inlet and exhaust, and I saw the power figures jump to 303bhp and 299lbft. Great, but now I had an annoying flat spot on pull away, but midrange torque felt alot stronger. In driving terms, at 60-140mph my mates EVO7 @ 367bhp would pull past me very slowly, but after the cams were fitted, the situation was reversed and I now pull past him very slowly.
There will always be an argument about small turbo versus big turbo, and in fairness the tuning potential of the big turbo, Ł for Ł, is cheaper than on the small turbo. However, and this rarely is mentioned, the later EEC4 small turbo engine is far superior block, oil ways, and head design,larger throttle body and improved inlet design and thus a greater building block than the old T34 specced cossies.
I own a small turbo, and a large turbo cossy, and which do I prefer?
Small turbo hands down. Don't get me wrong for shera brut power the larger turbo is more exciting, and with a nice bit of lag, pretty scarey on a track too. But for driveability, the small turbo wins hands down.
I was once told "For the ultimate track car, you should take the engine out of your blue one, and put it in your orange one" - I agree, but can't be arsed!!!
Mine is 303bhp @21psi (1.5bar). The turbo I am running is basically a standard housing, with Nissan Sunny GTi-R internals and a 360 bearing etc etc. Actuator is same. This has done 40,000 miles on the car in it's current form.
With a Magnex system (de-cat) or any other, Mongoose, Scorpion etc, you will be able to creep up the BHP ladder. I have a cone filter (stainless Blitz one), all the Samco hoses, and I got a chip made for my spec, but with no Boost limiter, or Rev limiter built into it, so I can set it up and drive it how I fell it needs.
At this stage the power was 287bhp and 303lbft, which was very good and nice to drive. This stage of tune was when I went head to head with the stage 3 big turbo one in Performance Ford.
The recorded performance at this time, were as follows;
0-60 4.9secs
1/4 mile 13.5secs
161 mph max speed
The car had the same lag as from new (i.e. very little) and was beautiful to drive, and thrash at the same time.
After this level I got some cams fitted- BD10 inlet and exhaust, and I saw the power figures jump to 303bhp and 299lbft. Great, but now I had an annoying flat spot on pull away, but midrange torque felt alot stronger. In driving terms, at 60-140mph my mates EVO7 @ 367bhp would pull past me very slowly, but after the cams were fitted, the situation was reversed and I now pull past him very slowly.
There will always be an argument about small turbo versus big turbo, and in fairness the tuning potential of the big turbo, Ł for Ł, is cheaper than on the small turbo. However, and this rarely is mentioned, the later EEC4 small turbo engine is far superior block, oil ways, and head design,larger throttle body and improved inlet design and thus a greater building block than the old T34 specced cossies.
I own a small turbo, and a large turbo cossy, and which do I prefer?
Small turbo hands down. Don't get me wrong for shera brut power the larger turbo is more exciting, and with a nice bit of lag, pretty scarey on a track too. But for driveability, the small turbo wins hands down.
I was once told "For the ultimate track car, you should take the engine out of your blue one, and put it in your orange one" - I agree, but can't be arsed!!!
#16
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cossymad
After this level I got some cams fitted- BD10 inlet and exhaust, and I saw the power figures jump to 303bhp and 299lbft.
Cheers.
#17
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: essex
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by S1rst
Originally Posted by cossymad
After this level I got some cams fitted- BD10 inlet and exhaust, and I saw the power figures jump to 303bhp and 299lbft.
Cheers.
If not it's whip them out and send them off to kent/ piper.
The difference in the cams is minute 0.013" @ tdc and 0.010" valve lift difference. Not much chance of seeing that!!!
#19
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: essex
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anythings possible, but I couldn't.
I asked Piper to get me some cams, and what the increase would be. They said 16bhp- they were right.
You have water injection on yours, which would significantly improve ACT's and as a result, BHP. Also all rollers are not the same, nor are the conditions in which cars are tested. I personally couldn't care what BHP is claimed from my car, but how it drives in relation to others on the same road / track at the same time, although it is a good way of guiding performance, and good to boast about down the pub. I usually quote driveway figures. "I have 723bhp Cosworth power!"
In a straightline, it is a different situation, but a well set up, decent tyred Cossy will always outperform a big BHP badly set up cossy with crap tyres!!!
I asked Piper to get me some cams, and what the increase would be. They said 16bhp- they were right.
You have water injection on yours, which would significantly improve ACT's and as a result, BHP. Also all rollers are not the same, nor are the conditions in which cars are tested. I personally couldn't care what BHP is claimed from my car, but how it drives in relation to others on the same road / track at the same time, although it is a good way of guiding performance, and good to boast about down the pub. I usually quote driveway figures. "I have 723bhp Cosworth power!"
In a straightline, it is a different situation, but a well set up, decent tyred Cossy will always outperform a big BHP badly set up cossy with crap tyres!!!
#20
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
There may be some new tuning options on teh horizon as i have a small turbo car here on long term loan with a rather nice looking T34 bolted to it and a lot of mapping gear...
I have always wanted to try live mapping one with a bigger turbo and maybe even bigger injectors, but have never had a car to keep for long enough to have a play with a "Happy if we win or lose" Type Customer who is willing to loan his car for the development. Now i have and will be trying towards the end of this week and most of next to get some power out of the system and see where its REAL limit is.
Watch this space.
I have always wanted to try live mapping one with a bigger turbo and maybe even bigger injectors, but have never had a car to keep for long enough to have a play with a "Happy if we win or lose" Type Customer who is willing to loan his car for the development. Now i have and will be trying towards the end of this week and most of next to get some power out of the system and see where its REAL limit is.
Watch this space.
#23
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Originally Posted by sailorbob
Sounds good Stu, does the new software have a definition for the ST Escort?
#24
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
I'm jealous I'd love to know if what I've got figured out ties in with the commercial stuff.
Can you access things like the MAF and MAP transfer tables?
BTW, did you ever manage to see if the EGR problem could be sorted?
Can you access things like the MAF and MAP transfer tables?
BTW, did you ever manage to see if the EGR problem could be sorted?
#25
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Originally Posted by sailorbob
I'm jealous I'd love to know if what I've got figured out ties in with the commercial stuff.
Can you access things like the MAF and MAP transfer tables?
BTW, did you ever manage to see if the EGR problem could be sorted?
Can you access things like the MAF and MAP transfer tables?
BTW, did you ever manage to see if the EGR problem could be sorted?
That EGR loop will be an interesting one indeed, as Ford said they couldnt revise the software and it was a known problem...
#26
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
We will see later this week all being well.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
That EGR loop will be an interesting one indeed, as Ford said they couldnt revise the software and it was a known problem...
#28
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Originally Posted by sailorbob
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
We will see later this week all being well.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
That EGR loop will be an interesting one indeed, as Ford said they couldnt revise the software and it was a known problem...
Time will tell anyway.
#29
Regular Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This post comes just in time, as I'm thinking of swapping my big turbo with my mate's small turbo escort! my mate is after big power and is willing to spend, if he does decide to keep the car can he replace the ecu with an after market one and go for big power? or does he need to replace other items as well? eec4 is the only restriction right?
#30
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 5,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arnie I think it is as there is an Escos here in Poland that was originally ST but now runs RS500 spec T4 and does over 400bhp - managed by Motec ECU.
#32
Advanced PassionFord User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
There may be some new tuning options on the horizon as i have a small turbo car here on long term loan with a rather nice looking T34 bolted to it and a lot of mapping gear...
I have always wanted to try live mapping one with a bigger turbo and maybe even bigger injectors, but have never had a car to keep for long enough to have a play with a "Happy if we win or lose" Type Customer who is willing to loan his car for the development. Now i have and will be trying towards the end of this week and most of next to get some power out of the system and see where its REAL limit is.
Watch this space.
I have always wanted to try live mapping one with a bigger turbo and maybe even bigger injectors, but have never had a car to keep for long enough to have a play with a "Happy if we win or lose" Type Customer who is willing to loan his car for the development. Now i have and will be trying towards the end of this week and most of next to get some power out of the system and see where its REAL limit is.
Watch this space.
If it possible to tune the car with just an other ECU, Fuelpump and pressure regulator, actuator etc but without changing the complete EFI system, that would be fantastic
#33
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
disabling it on the present/not present switch created a further issue with overrun fuelling.
#38
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
disabling it on the present/not present switch created a further issue with overrun fuelling
#40
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 5,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
testastretta999 I'm not 100% convinced that Autronic is a way to go on a road car :-/ It may be just shite mappers in POland but all the cars on Autronic I've driven had some problems - especially in wintertime.