Tuning a small turbo cossie

[sailorbob]

Originally Posted by testastretta999 just convert to autronic ecu IMO you would be better off spending the money on getting it decently mapped. I'd wager the Autronic s/w is inferior to the eec-iv in it's spark and fuel routines and reverting to a speed density setup is a backward step.

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[testastretta999]

Did'nt think is was poss to get over 300ish with the st ecu.

[Azrael]

testastretta999 just read what Stu@MSD wrote a little bit earlier

[adamski frst]

Originally Posted by sailorbob

IMO you would be better off spending the money on getting it decently mapped. I'd wager the Autronic s/w is inferior to the eec-iv in it's spark and fuel routines and reverting to a speed density setup is a backward step.

depending on what ecu were talking about here and if the CDI direct fire is used

[sailorbob]

AFAIK CDI has no real advantages below 10k rpm over an ecu dwell controlled wasted spark system.

[adamski frst]

could go on forever really depending on what is used... I personally feel if there is room for development on the ST thats great! as mine was playing up no end which is why i swapped over after taking it to a few places and spending hundreds on sensors .....

now works fine, goes like hell and i have the extra feature's to play with too .....

but the ST definatly needs to be able to produce 350bhp on eeciv think if it cost half or under half the price of a LT conversion it would really kick off

[Stu @ M Developments]

Not had the time id hoped for this week chapos, but i can at least confirm that the EGR fault is cleared and we have the fuelling for 25psi in the midrange on a T34, as long as we back down to sensible boost by 5Krpm due to standard injector limitations, so thats a start...

Will get round to trying some bigger injectors this week all being well, but the AMM is going to creat problems without a doubt.

[sailorbob]

Sounds good

Be interesting to see how it takes to the injector swap as the Cosworth eec differs from most in having the injector slopes set to the same value and I've wondered if this makes things simpler in not having to figure out the correct low slope.

The MAF shouldn't be a problem other than having to go to the States to find a suitably sized replacement.

[RWD_cossie_wil]

Can't wait to see what it finishes up like , I'm looking forward to the drive home already .....

This could be the new dawn for ST escort owners, decent power with much less hassle than swapping to LT webber management. Stu advised a T34.48 as the T3 is on its knees at just over 300BHP, so no real gain over a T28, but from what I have been told on the phone today, it's looking good so far with a bit more jiggery-pokery to come

As said Stu, you have the car for as long as you need it , just send it back a monster

[Mr.Ford]

Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments

Not had the time id hoped for this week chapos, but i can at least confirm that the EGR fault is cleared and we have the fuelling for 25psi in the midrange on a T34, as long as we back down to sensible boost by 5Krpm due to standard injector limitations, so thats a start...

Will get round to trying some bigger injectors this week all being well, but the AMM is going to creat problems without a doubt.

Can't wait to hear te result

[adamski frst]

will mine is using a T34 stg 3 .48 it seems there good to about 360-380bhp then of course the housing lets you down...

im gonna keep mine on this turbo till it goes then invest in a GT series

[RWD_cossie_wil]

where you from Ad? Have to drop into the black country RSOC meet next tues? , its at the greyhound in stourbridge

[ajjames]

any more news on this yet?

[M.A.D.RST]

Obviously Autronic is the way to go But it will be very interesting to see what Stu can do

[Escort1.8si]

Is there any news on the tuning of the eeciv at Motorsport Developments?

[adamski frst]

the news is 390bhp 430lbft on autronic

[THE RADMAN]

is that still with the .48 housing? thats very good

[adamski frst]

yes

[Escort1.8si]

does that mean that bringing the eeciv up to over 300hp failed?

[RWD_cossie_wil]

Unfortunatly my brand new turbo threw itself to bits after 200 miles, so it's cost a week to get it sorted Luckily it's under warranty, seems to have been just unlucky with a dodgy bearing, so will have another turbo ready next week. So, should re-commence the experiment late next week..

But as far as the tuning goes, it all seems to be as expected at the moment, so watch this space

[Escort1.8si]

ok, sorry to hear about the turbo, hope it didnt damage the rest of your engine.

looking forward to hear about the progress

[RWD_cossie_wil]

rest of engine is fine, turbo company were top notch as was the dealer I bought It off, so I have just got to find the time to re-fit it now . So play will commence on thursday hopefully

All looks very promising, Once Stu has worked his magic,it should be awsome! there are a few little issues to sort out, but nothing un-expected. Once the final product is ready, I will quite happily show people the car, take them out in it etc and provide a list and quide on what needs to be swapped/ modified, but it will still be FAR FAR cheaper and much easier than swapping to big turbo spec

[S1rst]

Sounds like it may be in the bag then.

[Mr.Ford]

Sounds good!

I was last week at a local ford tuner here in Holland. He said that there are bigger injectors for the ST, he uses them for a 300Bhp version because he said that the original ST injectors are to small to reach 300Bhp????

Does anyone know which type injectors that could be?

[Azrael]

Mr.Ford I remember Stu had some bigger injectors for EEC-IV on his website.

[Stu @ M Developments]

Small update for you chaps who are interested.

We have pretty much finished the first stage of developing a bolt on stage 2 kit for the ST Escos thanks almost exclusively to Wills very kind loan of his car to us.

The kit will comprise of:

• T34.48.
  LT 4x4 manifold
  Uprated fuel pump.
  Uprated Spark plugs.
  -34 Actuator.
  590cc injectors.
  Plug in Chip.

It will all literally just plug in, no adjustments to make, just fit these components. Once fitted, the new conversion retains all the EEC IVs adaptive fueling abilities and of course the wasted spark and closed loop fuelling control system it has as std. The bay will look VERY much standard when you are finished.

The system needs some further polishing yet as we have sadly run out of fuel flow on the uprated Walbro ITP 048 fuel pump, which Will is going to pop down and replace early next week so we can push on, but all looks fine so far. At least the turbo is holding up this time.

Oh yes, a small point i missed that you were possibly interested in:
We will likely settle on a 28psi midrange overboost and 24psi held to the limiter on this stage 2 T34 conversion.


When this stage2 conversion is complete, Will and I will talk about rewriting teh software more comprehensively and fitting a bigger MAF, inlet cam, light porting, and some more power.

[Azrael]

[adamski frst]

but at this point, just curious my head is std, cams std and before you say it i know i have autronic now . BUT mine makes good power without needs the cams and head porting...

does this mean you wanna go over 350?? or saying its needed for 350 on ST management!?

Ad

[sailorbob]

Well done Stu I'm glad someone finally proved the ''eec-iv cannot be tuned for big power" brigade wrong. A to Will too for letting you loose on it.

[S1rst]

Great acheivement this!!! I can see me parting with some cash in the near future then.

[RWD_cossie_wil]

thanks to Stu for putting all the time and effort in, its been a bit of a nightmare for everyone with the 1st turbo going bang after 200 miles , but thankfully the warranty was hounoured and replaced with one that seems to be behaving itself, and It seems Stu has made leaps and bounds in the last few days , only thing really holding the car back now is the fuel pump which I am sorting this week, and the MAF issue, which we have agreed to look at at a later date, as the car has done 100K miles, so the poor old girl is starting to feel the 50% power hike a bit .

I am going to drive the car for a few weeks with this conversion on, there are a few bits and bobs I want to get tidied up so it looks factory, then I will stick it on the rollers to see what she does, Stu has estimated 330-340 bhp which I think is about right

I am going to give the engine a freshen up in the next few months or so, and put some brakes on that actually stop the car rarther than just making a funny burning smell then it will be back to MSD for round two, to really see what the car can do on the EEC management

Anyone who wants to have a look/ come for a blast is most welcome, as The whole point of this experiment was to get a conversion for decent power without having to retro-grade to webber, which as we all know costs a fortune and is loads of hassle......

Thanks again for your hard work Stu, those beers last week were definatly deserved

[Stu @ M Developments]

Originally Posted by adamski frst

but at this point, just curious my head is std, cams std and before you say it i know i have autronic now . BUT mine makes good power without needs the cams and head porting...

does this mean you wanna go over 350?? or saying its needed for 350 on ST management!?

Ad

A YB will not excessed 400BHP as a standard unit.
I think after yesterdays work she probably makes nearer 350 now, and this is confirmed by teh pump letting us down, as they are rated at 350bhp.

Will and I hope to uprate the MAF and go for more power. Its not the management itslef thats going to let us down at 400, its the limitation of its MAF input, it will need to be swopped out for something that can accurately calculate around 45-50lb of air.

Originally Posted by sailorbob

Well done Stu I'm glad someone finally proved the ''eec-iv cannot be tuned for big power" brigade wrong. A to Will too for letting you loose on it.

Thanks Bob. Such a shame theres three damn tag codes, got to compare the COSY closely now with CARD and ANTI to see how easy/impossible it will be to port the software over.

[Stu @ M Developments]

Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil

thanks to Stu for putting all the time and effort in,

No thanks required Will, its thanks to YOU for loaning me your expensive car and driving a fiesta whilst i did the development work.

Sorry its taken so long mate. Had i still had Nick working for me, things would have run more smoothly.

The whole point of this experiment was to get a conversion for decent power without having to retro-grade to webber, which as we all know costs a fortune and is loads of hassle......

Not to mention that fitting Weber to a ST is a large DOWNGRADE from your STD EEC IV system, not to mention older, more quirky and far more unreliable.

[Mr.Ford]

Nice job Stu!

Time to save some money

[sailorbob]

Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments

Such a shame theres three damn tag codes, got to compare the COSY closely now with CARD and ANTI to see how easy/impossible it will be to port the software over.

If you fancy sending me the ANTI and CARD bin files over I'll do a quick comparison and see what changes there are.

[Stu @ M Developments]

Originally Posted by sailorbob

If you fancy sending me the ANTI and CARD bin files over I'll do a quick comparison and see what changes there are.

Very kind of you sir and will save me a couple of hours as i only have 2 systems. One does it in code only, and advantage wont accept those 2 tag codes. So i am going to have to port it over in code with nodecompiler.

I will do that some time today, send me your mail address again to sales@remapping.co.uk please pal.

[sailorbob]

Done

[the youth]

well done to all those involved, very interested in this conversion, need to start saving now..



steve

[The DIVA]

I had the priviledge of being the first person outside "The Team" to go out with Stu in Will`s car yesterday and i must say the conversion is superb......the car now goes like a rocket and the all the readings i saw on the monitoring equipment were very promising...

Big thanks to Stu for trusting me enough to give me such an insight into the conversion and the software/equipment involved......except for a few tweaks here and there the conversion is looking very good and i was certainly impressed....

When finished,this is going to be one of the most significant new developments in cossies we`ve seen in a long time,hat`s off to Stu for pushing the boundaries again to come up with new ideas/products....

[Mike Rainbird]

Originally Posted by adamski frst

but at this point, just curious my head is std, cams std and before you say it i know i have autronic now . BUT mine makes good power without needs the cams and head porting...

does this mean you wanna go over 350?? or saying its needed for 350 on ST management!?

Ad

I think they're trying to say that your rolling road figures are slightly over inflated for the the turbo you have on .

To give you an idea, I pushed my T34 0.48 a/r harder than most and at 34 psi peak (4500rpm), tailing to 26 psi by 7000rpm (still 29 psi at 6000 :eek) it made 385bhp @ 6000rpm and 403lb ft @ 4000rpm (engine dyno), so putting this in the car would have lost around 20bhp with all the bolt-on ancilliaries such as alternator and power-steering etc, so 365bhp MAX in-car (good enough for 172mph), yet you're claiming 390bhp in-car and 430lb ft . I personally think the rolling road you went to was optimistic....

A standard engine with this turbo is going to be a realistic 350-365bhp MAX, hence why Stu's realistic NO BULLSHIT claims .