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Old 18-12-2008, 06:08 AM   #1
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Hi,

After many years of training i made the dicison early last year to go to the next level and have just finished my second course of dinabol stacked with winstol tabs .

I look lean big feel so strong better than i have ever looked in my life, did lots of reseach prior to course and taken extra care of everything from diet to training .

I am very forward thinking and now i have finished my course ,i am thinking about my next and i want more from my next course i want to CUT more and get bigger.

Please could any one advise me on any of there personal experiances of Injectables such as test ect, i could do with noing what to expect from course sides ect

And how to go about the course dose how much i will need for a full course and any tips on taking care of myself while on course and where to inject.

Thanks for any help

Zach
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Old 18-12-2008, 03:25 PM   #2
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TBH m8 doing a cut with roids there is no miricle drug or everyone would do it.Yes some roids will help keep muscle gains as when you do a cut you go into calorie deficit mode and carb deficit aswell so your weak and tired and your body starts to use muscles for energy source so you start to loose size but IMHO doing a cut properly you dont need roids just loads of cardio and a very lean diet

Popular roids used when people cut are like test,winny,tren to name a few and doses are lower than normal sometimes but again it all depends on cycle history etc

If your set on doing roids then try sust @ 500mg/week for 8-10 weeks along with lean diet and loads of cardio
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Old 18-12-2008, 08:12 PM   #3
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Ok so if i get Sustan 250 250mg Testosterone Mix per ml - 10 ml Vial

How much do i need for the full course and wheres the best place to inject mate .

Cheers for your help.
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Old 18-12-2008, 08:13 PM   #4
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Also what sort of gains can i expect
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Old 18-12-2008, 08:42 PM   #5
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You would need 2 10ml vials m8.Normally best to get the 1ml amps and get 20 of those.PM me for a price if you want

Best place is ass and legs.Keep alternating between sites as the oil can build up in area if used all the time so would do left cheeck,right cheek,left leg,right leg.Your gonna need green pins for drawing up fluid and blue pins for injecting,alchohol wipes for steralising area prior to injection and wil need nolva for PCT 2 weeks after last shot

Last edited by snedboy; 18-12-2008 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 18-12-2008, 08:42 PM   #6
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2 vials is 10 weeks @ 500mg a week mate.
I frontloaded 1g on my first week to get things going quicker.
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Old 18-12-2008, 10:46 PM   #7
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2 vials is 10 weeks @ 500mg a week mate.
I frontloaded 1g on my first week to get things going quicker.
No need when you use dbol as a kickstart which most people do
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Old 18-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #8
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I've read that if your taking 500mg test a week, your body doesn't actually have 500mg test in it untill week 6-7. So by frontloading, you have 500mg throughout the course. Which would make sence!

I thought it was on muscle talk but can't find it now! I'll post a link when I find it but it was a good read.
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Old 18-12-2008, 11:04 PM   #9
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FRONTLOADING EXPLAINED

Front loading is a process to saturate your receptors with the peak dose from week one to ensure stable blood levels instead of it taking several weeks to peak like most long esters,this is why most people dont feel the effect of a long ester until its built up substantial amount in the blood stream, the problem can be solve by front loading which is doubling the amount of mg in the first wk,

When you inject AAS regardless of the ester a certain amount is released over the next 24-48hrs the only thing the esters does is extends the half life of the AAS it wont slow down the first initial release of the AAS, so after the the first release of the AAS as mentioned above the remainder is released over a certain amount of time up to the half life,

Why wait for you to feel the effects or for it to kick in around wks 6-7, you would be better of getting the blood androgen level up sooner,spiking and working so you feel the effects of the AAS, If you work out exactly the level of active testosterone and the esterized amount waiting to be activated you will see the advantage of front loading and the benefits -

The example i will show you is the first few weeks of a cycle what is not front loaded and one which is front loaded, please dont look to forward into the ester because its not really important to the final results other than dose difference, lets give an example of AAS with half life of 7 days -

Standard cycle of 500mgs per week :

Week 1- 500mg used........After 7 days 250mg left - so active test delivered in that wk 250mg

Week 2 - 500mg used.......+ 250mg (left over) = 750mg - test active for that wk = 375mg

Week 3 - 500mg used.......+375mg (left over)= 875mg - test active for that wk=437.5mg

Week 4 - 500mg used........+437.5mg(left over)=937.5mg - test active for that wk=488.7mg

Week 5 - 500mg used........+488.7mg(left over)=988.7mg - test active for that wk=494.3mg

Week 6 - 500mg used........+494.3mg(left over)=994.3mg - test active for that wk=497.1mg

Week 7 - 500mg used........+497.1mg(left over)=997.1- test active for that week=498.5mg

And so on...............

Takes 7 weeks to get the full weekly dose of 500mgs

250mg in the first wk
375mg in the second wk
437.5mg in the third wk
488.7mg in the fourth wk
494.3mg in the fifth wk
497.1mg in the sixth wk
498.5mg in the seventh wk

Front loaded cycle of 500mg per week:

Week 1 - 1000mg used.......After 7 days 500mg left - so active test delivered in that 1st week 500mg....bingo!!!!
Then back to the normal dose of 500mg per wk, job done!

By the end of the first week you will achieve the peak dose as opposed to the 7th wk of a cycle not front loaded, 1 wk or 7 wks for peak blood levels? no argument really, you will have the benefit of the gear kicking straight away,without doubt this is an excellent way to achieve your goals and get the full strength of the gear kicking striaght away, remember the body grows at its best when its fresh which is noramally at the start of a cycle, cut the whole length down of the cycle and front load it, less time shutdown, faster stable blood levels at peak dosage, results straight from the start, reason why many stay on cycle for many wks is because of when the gear starts to kick fully so why not cut the length down which will cut the time down for shutdown, with front load no need to stay on for so long,

Long esters and short esters can be used when front loading, long esters work better and should be doubled during the first wk of the cycle and the short esters should be doubled on the first day of the cycle but not that much in it tho!, this is due to the half life of short esters, a easier way around this would be - if you implement the rule of - with every standard dose you inject double each time you jab until you reach the first half life, this will ensure you wont go over the required amount and this will hit your peak blood levels in the first week, no unstable levels and straight away in the first wk you will be running the required amount,

Many like this method and many prefer kickstarting the front end of the cycle with an oral I would say try them both and see which one you respond best to, I would advise anybody who likes running the standard length of cycle with long esters to try this method it may just change the way you cycle in the future.
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Old 19-12-2008, 12:15 AM   #10
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Many like this method and many prefer kickstarting the front end of the cycle with an oral I would say try them both and see which one you respond best to, I would advise anybody who likes running the standard length of cycle with long esters to try this method it may just change the way you cycle in the future.
As i said in previous statement some prefer an oral kickstart.Not alot of people i know do injectable only so dont frontload atall due to this as they kickstart with orals
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Old 19-12-2008, 10:09 AM   #11
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For the price of 4 extra amps I decided to frontload this course.

However I will run Dbol at the end of the cycle, as you suggested on another thread. Was thinking 20mg a day week 10, then 30mg a day right up to starting PCT?

Or do you run a higher dose mate?
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Old 19-12-2008, 11:09 AM   #12
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For the price of 4 extra amps I decided to frontload this course.

However I will run Dbol at the end of the cycle, as you suggested on another thread. Was thinking 20mg a day week 10, then 30mg a day right up to starting PCT?

Or do you run a higher dose mate?
Some guys merely do 15mg a day just to keep test levels kind of normal until pct starts but some guys do up to 25mg a day.If i were you ide stick to 20mg a day until PCT.Are you waiting 2 or 3 weeks before PCT from last shot?
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Old 19-12-2008, 11:14 AM   #13
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I am starting PCT 2 weeks after last jab. Did it make much difference to the deadtime on your course?
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Old 22-12-2008, 10:05 PM   #14
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ok dont wanna cause any one upset ...but d/bol at the end of course to keep test levles steady??? d/bol does nothing for test levles but actualy suppresses your own production ..so if you run at the end you are just prolonging supression...also if its this guys second course then he is still a novice(gear wise) as such i dont think the doses mentioned are nessesary...i have a bit of a thing about doses being aproppiate for the actual time and amount some one has taken gear...as you use more then obviousley dosage rises...however i see lots of novices( gear wise ) taking what i would term itermidiate dosage and its not nessesary...lol excuse the spelling...never me strong point...to ans questoin gear dont cut diet does ..however diffrent types of gear do keep bloat down ...go for quick acting esters .....if you dont suffer from bloat dont worry any test is good ...
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Old 23-12-2008, 10:48 AM   #15
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It's good to hear peoples experiance. I was waiting for snedboys reply as to how much difference it made to his cycle. Would you not recomend (sp) it them micreed? I got the dbol as I was going to frontload on it the first 4 weeks, then I read the information about frontloading on test and decided to do that instead.

I'll prob save them if its a bad idea.
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Old 23-12-2008, 10:57 AM   #16
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It's good to hear peoples experiance. I was waiting for snedboys reply as to how much difference it made to his cycle. Would you not recomend (sp) it them micreed? I got the dbol as I was going to frontload on it the first 4 weeks, then I read the information about frontloading on test and decided to do that instead.

I'll prob save them if its a bad idea.
Sorry never seen your reply

I personally found it picked me up that bit in the 'dead time'.Helps against crashing as bad aswell especially if your running a heavy cycle.Most guys i know bridge nowadays but not always dbol.Each to there own but if you dont try you wont know what works for you,thats how i learned.
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Old 23-12-2008, 03:40 PM   #17
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i agree with snedboy on the front loading with the d,bol even when you front load the test in my experiance it will still take couple of weeks to fully kick in...with the d/bol its couple of days...ive never heard of anyone using d/bol as part of pct...i know peps who bridge with it ,,using proviron for sex drive ..but if you are gonna come of you want to start your own production as quick as poss to help keep gains..so if using long estered test such as say cypionate then that will still be in yer system up to 3weeks after last shot..so pct would start then ..your doses are good ...the thinking pretty sound.... although if your using long esteres it wont kick in fer around 10 days.prop is good choice for frontload.see it depends on the ester as to how quick its utilised even if you inject 1g of long ester based test it will still take ovr week to get utilised...quicker with prop ...couple of days...
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Old 23-12-2008, 04:29 PM   #18
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Thanks for all your replys lads.

You must forgive me and i have picked up bits and bats of what you are all saying.

I am a total novice to all this so far i have ran 2 courses of d.bol 10mg four a day for 3 months ,i have had great results i have been bodybuilding and boxing for all of my life and never seen had gains so fast .

I have a great diet low good carb high protine and i drink water like a fish .

Like i said i want to step it up in new year and go on to injectibles i can get the gear no probs .

I really need it putting in to simpler terms for me

1, what do i order and how much do i order (Want to gain a few pounds but mainly want to cut

2, How should the gear come "Is it just a bottle that i draw the gear from" ??

3, how many times a week and how much do i inject


Cheers lads sorry to be a pain i have got to learn from somewhere
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Old 23-12-2008, 04:31 PM   #19
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Thanks for both your replies,

I'm using Sust250. So could I have frontloaded with 1g and still used the Dbol weeks 1-4 aswell?
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Old 23-12-2008, 04:37 PM   #20
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Sorry to highjack your thread zach!

It can come in multi vials (10ml normally) or single use amps.
It works out a little cheaper to use a vial but not much.

If you run say sust250 thats 250mg per ml.
So 250mg a week is one injection, or 500mg is two.

You need to decide what you want? Have you looked on muscletalk yet. There are detailed guides on where and how to inject.
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Old 23-12-2008, 04:46 PM   #21
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olddshool...dont know what you can get but...test base a must... you can get good results at your stage 200 ml to 300ml per week test... go short course 7 weeks..clenbuterol will speed up your metabalism so take that as well start 40 ml day 1.. build up to 100 ml...(new evidense suggests recepters do not shut down after 2 weeks as previously thought) i personaly run it 6 weeks with great resuls... last 4 weeks ya cant beat masteron for hardening up the muscle and giving you that ripped look 300ml week..depending on what you buy.. masteron usually comes in multi vial 10ml test can come in single shot or muti ...just go for cypionate ...makes for less injections ...if you have any trouble personal message me...
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Old 23-12-2008, 04:47 PM   #22
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o yea good info on injecting here..cant be bothered to type it meself...lol
http://www.bodybuilding-board.org.uk/howtoinject.htm
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Old 23-12-2008, 04:56 PM   #23
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kiddie sust is good as well for front loading as also has short acting esters ,most peps i know shoot it every other day for 1st wweek to 10 days then 2 times week then on...just a thought for everyone but i always notice people start week 1 and expect to feel it straight away...i dont count first couple of weeks as it takes a bit to get in there...however people never count the couple of weeks after they finish...the gears still in there doing its work so it always equals out...so dont worry that your not getting instant kick from the start...
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Old 23-12-2008, 05:01 PM   #24
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Thanks for the advice, stick around mate!
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Old 23-12-2008, 05:04 PM   #25
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i used to do nandrolone , make sure you jag in the right place on your arse cheek, i nearly crippled myself hitting my sciatic nerve after following crap advice.
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Old 23-12-2008, 05:10 PM   #26
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lol that hurts like fuck dont it...had peps come to me thinkin they crippled...just word on shots i prefer thighs but wich ever site you do you will feel it after untill the injection site as we say opens up and you get used to it...you can make it a lot better if you warm up your gear first ...just pop it in hot water for 5 min..inject at steady slow speed and massage thouroughly after..
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Old 23-12-2008, 05:14 PM   #27
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Lol, the first two hurt for a good day each but that was 2ml in each cheek. The 1ml shots only sting for a few mins. I heat the oil up like you say, and after take the dog out for a walk to help disperse the oil.
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Old 23-12-2008, 06:54 PM   #28
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Fair play front loading sus, i cant stand the pain it gives me!!!! Heat the oil, rub area after, what ever i do it hurts like a bastard!!

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Old 23-12-2008, 07:51 PM   #29
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seems to affect some that way..i recon its the mixed esters...dont have any facts to back it up ...but some peps just cant get on with it...switch to single ester and no probs...lol...i admit i got no idea why it acts this way...it just does...
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Old 23-12-2008, 07:51 PM   #30
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olddshool...dont know what you can get but...test base a must... you can get good results at your stage 200 ml to 300ml per week test... go short course 7 weeks..clenbuterol will speed up your metabalism so take that as well start 40 ml day 1.. build up to 100 ml...(new evidense suggests recepters do not shut down after 2 weeks as previously thought) i personaly run it 6 weeks with great resuls... last 4 weeks ya cant beat masteron for hardening up the muscle and giving you that ripped look 300ml week..depending on what you buy.. masteron usually comes in multi vial 10ml test can come in single shot or muti ...just go for cypionate ...makes for less injections ...if you have any trouble personal message me...
Sorry but i dont understand the logic in telling him to do 3 diff substances but slate me for telling him to do 500mg/week of sust.For a first timer as you state the less substances the better i.e only 1 really so you know how your body reacts to it and also if any problems occur you know what caused it,running 3 diff types its a quessing game as to what caused the problem!!

Also i never mentioned anything about using dbol for PCT i meant at end of cycle i.e inbetween last jab and PCT starting 2/3 weeks depending on gear used this is called dead time where most people bridge dbol to keep test levels that bit higher until PCT begins so a crash doesnt occur,or atleast help prevent it occuring

If i was him best thing would be to do

Weeks 1-4 Dbol @ 30mg/day
Weeks 1-10 Sust @ 500mg/week

So he would need approx 200 dbol tabs and 2 10ml vials or 20 1ml amps of sust.Any problems getting stuff PM me and i'll sort you out m8

Good luck with whatever you decide to do
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Old 23-12-2008, 07:52 PM   #31
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seems to affect some that way..i recon its the mixed esters...dont have any facts to back it up ...but some peps just cant get on with it...switch to single ester and no probs...lol...i admit i got no idea why it acts this way...it just does...
Its the prop in sust that gives the sting
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Old 23-12-2008, 07:58 PM   #32
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i never thought about warming it before injecting...
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Old 23-12-2008, 08:17 PM   #33
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sned i didnt mean to come across as slating or saying your wrong..as i said a low test base is good ..masteron is prob the lest harmful anabolic going ..you can take tons of it and no sides ..300 ml is nothing with mast ...but is enough to give you good results...again didnt say you was wrong just the least amount of test you can take the better for a novice..(half dozen courses down the road he will be upping it then )......again you mention d/bol to keep test levles up ...this is where we disagree d/bol does nothing for your test levles but supress it..think this is universaly accepted...but this is the thing ...lots of people have views on anabolics the more we all give our own the better some one else can pick up bits.. reserch it themself then make informed choice...tis a great thing tinternet
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Old 23-12-2008, 08:25 PM   #34
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sorry to but in again but what you say was dead time actualy isnt unless you just been using short estres.....most dont.. so if say using longer ester its still woking up to 3 weeks after last shot...i dont feel this is dead time...
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Old 23-12-2008, 09:28 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by snedboy View Post
Sorry but i dont understand the logic in telling him to do 3 diff substances but slate me for telling him to do 500mg/week of sust.For a first timer as you state the less substances the better i.e only 1 really so you know how your body reacts to it and also if any problems occur you know what caused it,running 3 diff types its a quessing game as to what caused the problem!!

Also i never mentioned anything about using dbol for PCT i meant at end of cycle i.e inbetween last jab and PCT starting 2/3 weeks depending on gear used this is called dead time where most people bridge dbol to keep test levels that bit higher until PCT begins so a crash doesnt occur,or atleast help prevent it occuring

If i was him best thing would be to do

Weeks 1-4 Dbol @ 30mg/day
Weeks 1-10 Sust @ 500mg/w
So he would need approx 200 dbol tabs and 2 10ml vials or 20 1ml amps of sust.Any problems getting stuff PM me and i'll sort you out m8

Good luck with whatever you decide to do
Thanks mate
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Old 23-12-2008, 09:39 PM   #36
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i never thought about warming it before injecting...
Makes for a smoother transaction

micreed i do view your opinion highly as ive seen in other threads your a friend of Paul's (godzilla) and you do know your stuff and i dont mean to come accross harsh or anything either and as you stated it is good to get diff peeps views on things.I do feel your an oldskool type user and im a newskool user to put it in simple terms and obv we are going to agree on certain things and disagree on others and its up to the user to decide whats best for him and also what works for him

I personally feel using dbol in 'dead time' helps me and i understand in reality with long lasting esters like cyp,enanthate etc it means no dead time where as likes of prop,npp etc you do have 'dead time',maybe its a phsycoligical (sp!!) thing with me i dont know as i have only ever used long esters,so it probably is pointless for me but i got to admit i do love the pumps i get on dbol
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Old 23-12-2008, 09:39 PM   #37
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seems to affect some that way..i recon its the mixed esters...dont have any facts to back it up ...but some peps just cant get on with it...switch to single ester and no probs...lol...i admit i got no idea why it acts this way...it just does...
Changed to test and tren, no problems.....

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Old 24-12-2008, 09:25 AM   #38
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sned totaly agree..there are so many ways of using these compounds the more people have to choose the better informed they will end up...i reread the thread and realised that i could have worded my posts better...for that i apologise..i do not mean that your way is any way wrong...it is tried and tested...to any one who reads this i do not expect you to take what i say as gosple it is meant to point you to a diffrent approch but plse research yourselfs.. all we can do is point you in certain directions.
im sure me and sned would agree 99% of the time .and i also value his opinion...again sorry if i caused any offence i really didnt mean to...merry xmas peps
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Old 24-12-2008, 11:01 AM   #39
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sned totaly agree..there are so many ways of using these compounds the more people have to choose the better informed they will end up...i reread the thread and realised that i could have worded my posts better...for that i apologise..i do not mean that your way is any way wrong...it is tried and tested...to any one who reads this i do not expect you to take what i say as gosple it is meant to point you to a diffrent approch but plse research yourselfs.. all we can do is point you in certain directions.
im sure me and sned would agree 99% of the time .and i also value his opinion...again sorry if i caused any offence i really didnt mean to...merry xmas peps
No probs m8 i was in a bit of a mood when i read so prob took offence when not needed really

And as micreed has stated the more info the better for peeps and also the diff approaches to compounds does help aswell
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Old 24-12-2008, 05:53 PM   #40
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Old 24-12-2008, 05:53 PM
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