How much protein
07-11-2011, 02:34 PM
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How much protein
I go to the gym 4 times a week one of those days is just cardio the other 3 a free weights (may do a day on resistance).
I take creatine(mono) before and after a work out along with a PHD post work out shake.
I have changed my diet to aid my training and am trying to eat a healthy high protein diet chicken eggs etc but i can't help but think i need more protein to build my size should i be using a whey protein shake as well and if so how many a day / week.
Main thing i want from the gym is more size and to tone up
I'm 6"1 and weight 13.5 stone.
I'm a real noob to all this so could really do with some tips.
Thanks inadvance,
Phil
I take creatine(mono) before and after a work out along with a PHD post work out shake.
I have changed my diet to aid my training and am trying to eat a healthy high protein diet chicken eggs etc but i can't help but think i need more protein to build my size should i be using a whey protein shake as well and if so how many a day / week.
Main thing i want from the gym is more size and to tone up
I'm 6"1 and weight 13.5 stone.
I'm a real noob to all this so could really do with some tips.
Thanks inadvance,
Phil
07-11-2011, 02:53 PM
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Most people go for around 2g of protien per Lbs of body weight. So with your weight you should be looking at taking no less than 378g so would be looking at 400 as an easy number
08-11-2011, 09:05 AM
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Imo i would say 150g per day is more than enough, but dont forget carbs like brown rice and pasta as u wont put on size just by eating protein. Try and have 30g of protein first thing im morning about 10, 1, 4 train then straight after. You also need something straight before u go to bed mate. Hope that helps
Luke
08-11-2011, 10:58 AM
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Yeah i was just going by what most sites seems to say. I know for sure that i can't take in that much protien in a day its just to much eating even with shakes to boost it up a bit. I usually go for over 200g if i can manage it
Last edited by krypton; 08-11-2011 at 11:01 AM.
08-11-2011, 08:21 PM
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1.5g-2g pr kg of body mass for heavy training
0.8 is the rda
Apparently anything over the 2g mark and its a waste.
0.8 is the rda
Apparently anything over the 2g mark and its a waste.
Last edited by JoeE30; 08-11-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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08-11-2011, 08:37 PM
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Sort of true mate, but depends on the quality of amino acids u take which brake down the protein into something your body can use. Obviously when your on roids your body works twice as fast so u can consume 300-400g ok. But if your not on cycle 150is plenty per day imo
09-11-2011, 12:20 PM
#9
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forget all this take this much per kg of body weight
just eat as much as poss per meal
protein 1st thing with oat meal
even put some protein on he oat meal if you fancy it
and then 1 more shake mid day
and 1 straight after training
dont get caught up in it all as you will start to find it a chore
just enjoy it and eat what you want
if your looking to take gear then things would be different
you should have a cheat day when you eat WHAT EVER ie crap
so the body dont store crap food as fat
and for bulking train every other day
just eat as much as poss per meal
protein 1st thing with oat meal
even put some protein on he oat meal if you fancy it
and then 1 more shake mid day
and 1 straight after training
dont get caught up in it all as you will start to find it a chore
just enjoy it and eat what you want
if your looking to take gear then things would be different
you should have a cheat day when you eat WHAT EVER ie crap
so the body dont store crap food as fat
and for bulking train every other day
09-11-2011, 12:42 PM
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Sort of true mate, but depends on the quality of amino acids u take which brake down the protein into something your body can use. Obviously when your on roids your body works twice as fast so u can consume 300-400g ok. But if your not on cycle 150is plenty per day imo
What I think has been totally overlooked though is the fact that the original OP has not mentioned anything about his training apart from how many days. You could consume all the protein you want but if those 3 days per week of weights are half arsed then it isn't going to get you anywhere.
09-11-2011, 12:44 PM
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forget all this take this much per kg of body weight
just eat as much as poss per meal
protein 1st thing with oat meal
even put some protein on he oat meal if you fancy it
and then 1 more shake mid day
and 1 straight after training
dont get caught up in it all as you will start to find it a chore
just enjoy it and eat what you want
if your looking to take gear then things would be different
you should have a cheat day when you eat WHAT EVER ie crap
so the body dont store crap food as fat
and for bulking train every other day
just eat as much as poss per meal
protein 1st thing with oat meal
even put some protein on he oat meal if you fancy it
and then 1 more shake mid day
and 1 straight after training
dont get caught up in it all as you will start to find it a chore
just enjoy it and eat what you want
if your looking to take gear then things would be different
you should have a cheat day when you eat WHAT EVER ie crap
so the body dont store crap food as fat
and for bulking train every other day
No gear for me i can't afford the length!!
09-11-2011, 01:10 PM
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I've read reports to state the opposite. Natural lifters consuming more protein made better gains than those on the RDA or 1.5g per lb.
I think we have been here before! I think you need to consume more protein when off cycle to retain the muscle. BB is not about cycles and trying hard during those only.
What I think has been totally overlooked though is the fact that the original OP has not mentioned anything about his training apart from how many days. You could consume all the protein you want but if those 3 days per week of weights are half arsed then it isn't going to get you anywhere.
I think we have been here before! I think you need to consume more protein when off cycle to retain the muscle. BB is not about cycles and trying hard during those only.
What I think has been totally overlooked though is the fact that the original OP has not mentioned anything about his training apart from how many days. You could consume all the protein you want but if those 3 days per week of weights are half arsed then it isn't going to get you anywhere.
09-11-2011, 01:24 PM
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How can u not afford gear. If i wanted it i could get it for less than a good big tub of protein!
But you'l get all the gains just by increasing your diet for the first few months.
Oh and phil great one line reply after we all took time to help u out!
But you'l get all the gains just by increasing your diet for the first few months.
Oh and phil great one line reply after we all took time to help u out!
09-11-2011, 01:27 PM
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True mate, i increased my diet even more this week, i think i eat soooo much chicken now. I should work it all out one day but i just dont have the time. The boys down the gym have noticed it just within a week.
Just proves that cave man diet and good hard training are the way forward no matter what scientific breakthroughs they make in suppliments
Just proves that cave man diet and good hard training are the way forward no matter what scientific breakthroughs they make in suppliments
09-11-2011, 07:16 PM
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I do appreciated all the replies that people have put and have taken everything on board in making my diet and supplement choices.
12-11-2011, 07:42 AM
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I've read reports to state the opposite. Natural lifters consuming more protein made better gains than those on the RDA or 1.5g per lb.
I think we have been here before! I think you need to consume more protein when off cycle to retain the muscle. BB is not about cycles and trying hard during those only.
What I think has been totally overlooked though is the fact that the original OP has not mentioned anything about his training apart from how many days. You could consume all the protein you want but if those 3 days per week of weights are half arsed then it isn't going to get you anywhere.
I think we have been here before! I think you need to consume more protein when off cycle to retain the muscle. BB is not about cycles and trying hard during those only.
What I think has been totally overlooked though is the fact that the original OP has not mentioned anything about his training apart from how many days. You could consume all the protein you want but if those 3 days per week of weights are half arsed then it isn't going to get you anywhere.
As above one thing says one the other says another,
As for luke and quality of amino and break down, christ on a bike who are we talking about cutler or just some lads in the local gym with full time jobs???
Im not sure too many people in my gym have ever gone into the quality of their aminos and believe me we have ex comp lads and some guys bigger that your local strongman and far far stronger.
Most lads i know and myself included buy lots at pretty much the lowest price as like protein its consumed so much and so quickly im pretty sure unless you are competing the difference is un-noticeable.
12-11-2011, 07:56 AM
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I think you got the wrong end of the stick mate i didn't mean i couldn't afford to buy gear i was joking at i couldn't afford to loose cock length as apparently roids shrink your cock or so people say.
I do appreciated all the replies that people have put and have taken everything on board in making my diet and supplement choices.
I do appreciated all the replies that people have put and have taken everything on board in making my diet and supplement choices.
12-11-2011, 08:02 AM
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Kieron
As above one thing says one the other says another,
As for luke and quality of amino and break down, christ on a bike who are we talking about cutler or just some lads in the local gym with full time jobs???
Im not sure too many people in my gym have ever gone into the quality of their aminos and believe me we have ex comp lads and some guys bigger that your local strongman and far far stronger.
Most lads i know and myself included buy lots at pretty much the lowest price as like protein its consumed so much and so quickly im pretty sure unless you are competing the difference is un-noticeable.
As above one thing says one the other says another,
As for luke and quality of amino and break down, christ on a bike who are we talking about cutler or just some lads in the local gym with full time jobs???
Im not sure too many people in my gym have ever gone into the quality of their aminos and believe me we have ex comp lads and some guys bigger that your local strongman and far far stronger.
Most lads i know and myself included buy lots at pretty much the lowest price as like protein its consumed so much and so quickly im pretty sure unless you are competing the difference is un-noticeable.
But i take your point mate most of us dont compete so the advantages over amino acid intake doesnt really matter as long as u take the basic ones.
12-11-2011, 11:49 AM
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My take on it;
Following a good strict consistant diet is important, not for the sake of gains but being in a good routine eating-wise as well as training helps keep you motivated/focused. It certainly does for me anyway.
HOWEVER
As for protein intake for your average joe (i.e. all of us on here), my theory is that you need to take in as much as physically possible every day.
Every meal i think about protein first, so if im having a chicken meal, i know one small chicken breast isnt enough, so i make 2 or 3 instead. I know 1 can of tuna isnt enough so i open 2 or 3 instead.
If i get hungry at bedtime or at some point in the day, i have 80g of whey in a shake.
Some days i'll get 250g where i miss a meal for some reason, work/socialising etc... other days i'll eat 400g+.
I don't believe all the science behind bodybuilding/weight trainng/muscle building, some of it is very true, some of it is ridiculous.
If a 60kg man eats 400g of protein a day, 500g of carbs and 200g of fat and lifts regularly and heavy, then he WILL gain well. Maybe some added bodyfat but that can be removed with a tweak on the carbs/fat intake.
The point i'm trying to make is; Us normal lifters, who train for muscle and strength gains, not to step on a stage and compete should just eat as much protein as we can. It is sensible to monitor carb and fat intake in order to keep bodyfat in check but protein wise, get it in you and stop poofing about with shit you read online.
Following a good strict consistant diet is important, not for the sake of gains but being in a good routine eating-wise as well as training helps keep you motivated/focused. It certainly does for me anyway.
HOWEVER
As for protein intake for your average joe (i.e. all of us on here), my theory is that you need to take in as much as physically possible every day.
Every meal i think about protein first, so if im having a chicken meal, i know one small chicken breast isnt enough, so i make 2 or 3 instead. I know 1 can of tuna isnt enough so i open 2 or 3 instead.
If i get hungry at bedtime or at some point in the day, i have 80g of whey in a shake.
Some days i'll get 250g where i miss a meal for some reason, work/socialising etc... other days i'll eat 400g+.
I don't believe all the science behind bodybuilding/weight trainng/muscle building, some of it is very true, some of it is ridiculous.
If a 60kg man eats 400g of protein a day, 500g of carbs and 200g of fat and lifts regularly and heavy, then he WILL gain well. Maybe some added bodyfat but that can be removed with a tweak on the carbs/fat intake.
The point i'm trying to make is; Us normal lifters, who train for muscle and strength gains, not to step on a stage and compete should just eat as much protein as we can. It is sensible to monitor carb and fat intake in order to keep bodyfat in check but protein wise, get it in you and stop poofing about with shit you read online.
12-11-2011, 12:30 PM
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imho eating 3tins of tuna or 3 chicken breasts at same is purely a waste of cash. Your body when not on cycle can only breakdown 40g of protein every 2-3 hours the rest gets shitted out
Me and kieron always have this debate
But i agree with your point as using eating to get a good routine. It defo helps and gets your motivated. I weight 80kg's. I dont take more than 180g of protein a day. However i noticed more gains when i increased my carbs. Everyone's different though
Me and kieron always have this debate
But i agree with your point as using eating to get a good routine. It defo helps and gets your motivated. I weight 80kg's. I dont take more than 180g of protein a day. However i noticed more gains when i increased my carbs. Everyone's different though
12-11-2011, 12:54 PM
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Who said this? Does this mean a 50kg womans body can breakdown 40g of of protein the same as my 110kg body can?
With that rekoning if my 50kg femal pal drank 15 pints tonight and i drank 15 pints tonight then we'd both blow exactly the same on a breathalyzer?
Bulllllshittttttttttt
12-11-2011, 01:31 PM
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I'm sure i've had a debate with you before about it too! Total load of bollocks!!!!!
Who said this? Does this mean a 50kg womans body can breakdown 40g of of protein the same as my 110kg body can?
With that rekoning if my 50kg femal pal drank 15 pints tonight and i drank 15 pints tonight then we'd both blow exactly the same on a breathalyzer?
Bulllllshittttttttttt
Who said this? Does this mean a 50kg womans body can breakdown 40g of of protein the same as my 110kg body can?
With that rekoning if my 50kg femal pal drank 15 pints tonight and i drank 15 pints tonight then we'd both blow exactly the same on a breathalyzer?
Bulllllshittttttttttt
I actually valued your opinion untill u went on about drink. Unfortunatly i know the facts on this one. A adult processes alcohol at the same rate... 1unit per hour, it makes no difference on body size. The only diff is the time it starts to processing it. A bloke takes 30mins from the first sip and a women is slightly diff.
And its because of the above i say that 150g of protein per day if your a natural BB IS enough, 200tops depending on diet.
U keep saying show me proof but u show me proof saying u can consume 400g and not shit any of it out. Im just going on what big lifters have learnt over time
12-11-2011, 02:09 PM
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I actually valued your opinion untill u went on about drink. Unfortunatly i know the facts on this one. A adult processes alcohol at the same rate... 1unit per hour, it makes no difference on body size. The only diff is the time it starts to processing it. A bloke takes 30mins from the first sip and a women is slightly diff.
And its because of the above i say that 150g of protein per day if your a natural BB IS enough, 200tops depending on diet.
U keep saying show me proof but u show me proof saying u can consume 400g and not shit any of it out. Im just going on what big lifters have learnt over time
So. An experienced lifter who is 250lbs in bodyweight should, by what we believe to be true, consume 1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight.
This equals 375g of protein a day.
Divide this by 40g(the exact number you say every single persons body can digest/use in one sitting...) and it means he will have to eat 40g of protein almost 10 times a day.
So every 2.4 hours of the day, inluding through the night, this man should get up and have 40g of protein.
FUCKING BRO-SCIENCE!
People don't do that. The 40g a sitting is utter bullshit, your body will use what it needs, 40g may be enough for a small, lightly muscled physique but not for a large, experienced lifters physique.
I don't understand how you think a small womans body operates at the same efficiency as a large, heavily muscled mans body.
As for the alcohol... again, i'm willing to bet if i had 15 pints and my 50kg female friend had 15 pints, there would be a significant difference in the rate our bodies absorbed and removed the alcohol in our systems.
If a 250lbs man needs 1.5g of protein per lb of bw, this will mean he has to have 375g of protein each day.
375g divided by 40g(the exact number you say every single person can digest/use in one sitting) =
Last edited by Coldo; 12-11-2011 at 02:11 PM.
13-11-2011, 07:06 AM
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Adding further to the discussion, not all proteins are absorbed at the same rate. Caesin for exaple is slow releasing/absorbing. You will digest it quicker in shakes than you will in food form.
Heres a little snippet of a post made this week by a very knowledgeable trainer/nutritionalist:
Heres a little snippet of a post made this week by a very knowledgeable trainer/nutritionalist:
Originally Posted by another nob on the web
The idea that you can only process about 30gr of protein per meal came from a couple of studies that were inherently flawed.....
In the key study they gave them meals with 30gr of protein and meals with 90gr protein in and compared the uptake. There was no greater intake in the 90gr group leading them to conclude (wrongly) that the max was around 30gr. The primary issues with the studies (i think) were:
1. The study subjects were sedentary elderly people. Clearly they have VERY different macronutrient needs to younger people, especially those involved in strength training.
2. The measures used were not as reliable as more modern investigative methods for this and the timeframe used leads me to question whether they would have found different results with a longer time frame (and more sensitive measuremnents)
3. It completely ignores basic common sense.........
Think of it from an evolutionary perspective - we now have food available, widely, cheaply and in abundance. We no longer need to hunt for it...but our bodies (as an organism) don't "know" that. Traditionally we have had lean times when food was scarce and other times when food was plentiful. How would it make sense for the body to set some arbitrary limit on nutrient absorption?
Look at the many places round the world where people are genuinely lucky (relatively speaking) to get one meal per day. Let's suppose that meal contains 100gr of protein. Is the body really going to go "Oh you know what....I do actually need more than 30gr of protein but since I have this limit i'll just chuck the spare stuff out and wait for the next meal....that's the same time tomorrow right?". No.
The human body will take what it needs from every food source you ingest. Anything it doesn't need it will try to store if possible. If that's not possible than it gets disposed of. It also depends on the food source - you'll absorb whey shakes faster because they're liquid.
I would be tempted to suggest the guy in the supplement store does his homework a bit better......he works in a role where he advises people on nutrition but is not apparently remotely up-to-date with his knowledge. Hmmmm..........
In the key study they gave them meals with 30gr of protein and meals with 90gr protein in and compared the uptake. There was no greater intake in the 90gr group leading them to conclude (wrongly) that the max was around 30gr. The primary issues with the studies (i think) were:
1. The study subjects were sedentary elderly people. Clearly they have VERY different macronutrient needs to younger people, especially those involved in strength training.
2. The measures used were not as reliable as more modern investigative methods for this and the timeframe used leads me to question whether they would have found different results with a longer time frame (and more sensitive measuremnents)
3. It completely ignores basic common sense.........
Think of it from an evolutionary perspective - we now have food available, widely, cheaply and in abundance. We no longer need to hunt for it...but our bodies (as an organism) don't "know" that. Traditionally we have had lean times when food was scarce and other times when food was plentiful. How would it make sense for the body to set some arbitrary limit on nutrient absorption?
Look at the many places round the world where people are genuinely lucky (relatively speaking) to get one meal per day. Let's suppose that meal contains 100gr of protein. Is the body really going to go "Oh you know what....I do actually need more than 30gr of protein but since I have this limit i'll just chuck the spare stuff out and wait for the next meal....that's the same time tomorrow right?". No.
The human body will take what it needs from every food source you ingest. Anything it doesn't need it will try to store if possible. If that's not possible than it gets disposed of. It also depends on the food source - you'll absorb whey shakes faster because they're liquid.
I would be tempted to suggest the guy in the supplement store does his homework a bit better......he works in a role where he advises people on nutrition but is not apparently remotely up-to-date with his knowledge. Hmmmm..........
TBH I'm a bit long in the tooth and others have done much much more than me. I am just a hobby lifter and do it because I enjoy it. That said I watch people on the net count macros, weigh food and go into it all scientifically with the likes of aminos absorbed etc etc and tbh they look like shit and never improve. Some people like going to the gym and throwing some iron about whereas others like to talk about it and go into the most anal of details that make fuck all difference at their (or our) level.
Go to the gym, lift heavy, eat and enjoy.
Go to the gym, lift heavy, eat and enjoy.
13-11-2011, 03:07 PM
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forget all this take this much per kg of body weight
just eat as much as poss per meal
protein 1st thing with oat meal
even put some protein on he oat meal if you fancy it
and then 1 more shake mid day
and 1 straight after training
dont get caught up in it all as you will start to find it a chore
just enjoy it and eat what you want
if your looking to take gear then things would be different
you should have a cheat day when you eat WHAT EVER ie crap
so the body dont store crap food as fat
and for bulking train every other day
just eat as much as poss per meal
protein 1st thing with oat meal
even put some protein on he oat meal if you fancy it
and then 1 more shake mid day
and 1 straight after training
dont get caught up in it all as you will start to find it a chore
just enjoy it and eat what you want
if your looking to take gear then things would be different
you should have a cheat day when you eat WHAT EVER ie crap
so the body dont store crap food as fat
and for bulking train every other day
14-11-2011, 04:11 PM
#27
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Agreed kieron,
Like we kinda have all agreed what works for one, dont work for another and i for one have never bothered counting or weighting fuck all myself included(or i have bit only every once in a while) i go on look and feel..
Some lads get off on the whole figures and sci behind it all and again like i said above unless your comp on some level i really dont hink you will ever notice or need to use the best of everything, on a bb site i visit there was a debate on quality or quantity of protien, the lads who spouted about only buying the best/most expensive for their bodies were light yrs behind the quantity lads in the build/look department.
Like we kinda have all agreed what works for one, dont work for another and i for one have never bothered counting or weighting fuck all myself included(or i have bit only every once in a while) i go on look and feel..
Some lads get off on the whole figures and sci behind it all and again like i said above unless your comp on some level i really dont hink you will ever notice or need to use the best of everything, on a bb site i visit there was a debate on quality or quantity of protien, the lads who spouted about only buying the best/most expensive for their bodies were light yrs behind the quantity lads in the build/look department.
15-11-2011, 08:07 AM
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We had a similar debate on here Joe. Lots of people stating how poor the Holland & Barret protein was yet two of the biggest on here both rated it as helping them get to where they were.
Horses for courses.
Horses for courses.
17-11-2011, 03:20 PM
#29
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That's why it's down to more than one or two factors. I'm very very strong compared to lots of people in my gym and alot more muscular lads, they struggle to gain a pound a week and eat shit loads more than me. I have to do atleast 30mins cardio a day just to keep my weight under control. The leanest I've been was a massive struggle, mainly protein diet, high intensity training, lots of cardio and the help of a number of "aids".
Yet lads who I train with will do no cv yetdropp a meal and look far more ripped.
What I'm getting at is it is more than weights, more than rest or the quality of supplements it's everything and nothing. Yet what works for that one guy won't for the next.
Yet lads who I train with will do no cv yetdropp a meal and look far more ripped.
What I'm getting at is it is more than weights, more than rest or the quality of supplements it's everything and nothing. Yet what works for that one guy won't for the next.
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